|
joneiche
Nov 14, 2003, 11:18 PM
Post #1 of 17
(2450 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 25, 2002
Posts: 55
|
Does anyone prefer a u-stem cam in a sketchy placement over a single stem cam? I seem to find that a u-stem distributes the load better to the cams that are engaged. Just curious what others thought.
|
|
|
|
|
brutusofwyde
Nov 15, 2003, 10:29 PM
Post #2 of 17
(2450 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 3, 2002
Posts: 1473
|
I try to avoid sketchy placements.
Failing that, I like hybrid Aliens.
Prefer single stem for really thin aid, like leapfrogging black aliens in 2-cam placements up on Magic Mushroom
|
|
|
|
|
mephibosheth
Nov 15, 2003, 11:08 PM
Post #3 of 17
(2450 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 14, 2002
Posts: 21
|
My opinion:
1.) I've never used a u-stem cam, just single stem ones, but, as far as I'm aware, u-stem cams have a greater tendency to lever out of shallow, vertical placements. In that situation, I'd take a single-stem cam.
2.) U-stem cams seem to have more flexible stems than single-stem cams, so, in a shallow, horizontal placement (or any horizontal placement for that matter), given the option, I'd prefer a u-stem cam. That may change if I ever use the WC Zeros, but for now, I think u-stems are the best bet for horizontal placements.
3.) As a function of their design, u-stem cams have the interior cams closer together. This reduces their ability to hold in soft rock and marginal placements by concentrating the force of the fall. Single-stem cams dissipate the force over a larger area.
4.) Also because of their design, u-stem cams tend to be narrower in larger sizes. If the placement was wide(fist size and up), I would probably go with the single-stem unit. The wider heads decrease the tendency of the cam to walk, thus increasing the safety of the placement.
5.) All of this depends on the rock type, condition, and the individual conditions of the placement.
So that's my opinion on the u-stem v. single-stem cam debate. Once again, bear in mind that I've never placed a u-stem cam on a route, so my opinion is based entirely on my knowledge of the science behind cams.
Mephibosheth
|
|
|
|
|
crackup
Nov 15, 2003, 11:19 PM
Post #4 of 17
(2450 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 4, 2003
Posts: 26
|
In reply to: My opinion: 1.) I've never used a u-stem cam, just single stem ones ..... Once again, bear in mind that I've never placed a u-stem cam on a route, so my opinion is based entirely on my knowledge of the science behind cams. Mephibosheth
Pure BS.
Why give an opinion on something you have not evaluated yourself?
And how can you claim to have science of somthing you have never scientified yourself.
|
|
|
|
|
mephibosheth
Nov 15, 2003, 11:23 PM
Post #5 of 17
(2450 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 14, 2002
Posts: 21
|
Why? If my knowledge is faulty or incomplete, please enlighten me. I'd hate to die because I placed the wrong cam in the wrong place.
Mephibosheth
|
|
|
|
|
arlen
Nov 16, 2003, 5:43 AM
Post #6 of 17
(2450 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 3, 2001
Posts: 127
|
In reply to: My opinion: 1.) I've never used a u-stem cam, just single stem ones, but, as far as I'm aware, u-stem cams have a greater tendency to lever out of shallow, vertical placements. In that situation, I'd take a single-stem cam.
WTF? A U-stem tends to pivot in place, like a TCU. Thus it's less likely to lever out. I'd expect it walk more, though I've looked for that situation and not found it yet, having about equal amounts of U- and single-stem cams on my rack.
In reply to: 2.)As a function of their design, u-stem cams have the interior cams closer together. This reduces their ability to hold in soft rock and marginal placements by concentrating the force of the fall. Single-stem cams dissipate the force over a larger area. Mephibosheth
But with a U-stem cam, the force comes from closer to the outside cams, probably offsetting the small margin of difference with a similarly small margin.
IME the main difference between U- and single-stem cams is how they handle. When it's cold, or when I'm using my non-dominant hand, I prefer the U-stems. You can wiggle a single-stem into a narrow crack a little easier if the trigger rotates.
|
|
|
|
|
squish
Nov 16, 2003, 5:52 AM
Post #7 of 17
(2450 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 2, 2003
Posts: 470
|
In reply to: Pure BS. Why give an opinion on something you have not evaluated yourself? And how can you claim to have science of somthing you have never scientified yourself.
Uh, not pure BS. It's a valid opinion and mostly right, though some points could be argued.
And... "scientified?"
|
|
|
|
|
squish
Nov 16, 2003, 6:14 AM
Post #8 of 17
(2450 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 2, 2003
Posts: 470
|
In reply to: My opinion: 1.) I've never used a u-stem cam, just single stem ones, but, as far as I'm aware, u-stem cams have a greater tendency to lever out of shallow, vertical placements. In that situation, I'd take a single-stem cam.
In reply to: 2.) U-stem cams seem to have more flexible stems than single-stem cams, so, in a shallow, horizontal placement (or any horizontal placement for that matter), given the option, I'd prefer a u-stem cam. That may change if I ever use the WC Zeros, but for now, I think u-stems are the best bet for horizontal placements.
In reply to: 3.) As a function of their design, u-stem cams have the interior cams closer together. This reduces their ability to hold in soft rock and marginal placements by concentrating the force of the fall. Single-stem cams dissipate the force over a larger area.
In reply to: 4.) Also because of their design, u-stem cams tend to be narrower in larger sizes. If the placement was wide(fist size and up), I would probably go with the single-stem unit. The wider heads decrease the tendency of the cam to walk, thus increasing the safety of the placement.
In reply to: 5.) All of this depends on the rock type, condition, and the individual conditions of the placement. |
|
|
|
|
andypro
Nov 16, 2003, 6:21 AM
Post #9 of 17
(2450 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 23, 2003
Posts: 1077
|
You can go back and forth over this all day long and get absolutely nowhere. You lways hear this from the gym baby invasion about forged friends. They're evil. They suck. They're dangerous. Same thing with eastern European cams vs the rest of the expensive brands, and most of all BD vs. The World.
What it's going to boil down to is your responsibility in placement of the cam. Sure, there are specialized cams out there for very specific placements, but all in all it generally comes down to the person palcing the cam more than anyhting else. Guys who have been climbing valley walls for 20 years could make a cam stick in a place you woudln't think possible, no matter what the stem configuration is.
As long as your responsible in your placement, anyhitng will do just about anywhere.
|
|
|
|
|
jimdavis
Nov 17, 2003, 8:20 PM
Post #10 of 17
(2450 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 1, 2003
Posts: 1935
|
IMHO single stemmed cams are easier to hold and place, just because you can get your thumb on something solid instead of the rounded bottom on a U Stem Cam.
I've placed some TCU's that i REALLY liked in a vertical placement, and some small Power-Cams in horozintal cracks.
I think it's personal opinion for the most part, but U Stems CAN get in the way for SOME vertical placements.
Just place both types, see what you like, and stick with them.
Those Robot Cam triggers suck though, other wise i think they're solid as a U stem cam.
|
|
|
|
|
hello_heino
Nov 17, 2003, 8:29 PM
Post #11 of 17
(2450 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 23, 2003
Posts: 231
|
In reply to: Why give an opinion on something you have not evaluated yourself?
Because that is what this site is all about!
|
|
|
|
|
hoppinbig
Nov 17, 2003, 8:33 PM
Post #12 of 17
(2450 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 21, 2002
Posts: 409
|
Andypro has had the most intelligent response so far..... this is like comparing BMW's to Mercedes..... if the cams are both well made it ultametly comes done to ones personal preference.
I have Camelots, Aliens and DMM's and think they are all great... don't be a stem-a hata!
|
|
|
|
|
capn_morgan
Nov 17, 2003, 9:16 PM
Post #13 of 17
(2450 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 7, 2003
Posts: 565
|
Go passive..then it wont matter. 8)
|
|
|
|
|
crackup
Nov 17, 2003, 10:05 PM
Post #14 of 17
(2450 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 4, 2003
Posts: 26
|
In reply to: In reply to: Why give an opinion on something you have not evaluated yourself? Because that is what this site is all about!
Yes, that is your opinion. There are topics for opinion but gear topics should contain more experience and fact. After all, BETA is what this site is all about. That's my opinion.
The topic of cam stems is hard to debate for the average climbing consumer. But the point I am making is there is no validity to an unproven point and unfounded gear opinions reflects a frame of mind that can lead to disaster.
|
|
|
|
|
petsfed
Nov 17, 2003, 10:06 PM
Post #15 of 17
(2450 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 25, 2002
Posts: 8599
|
I like TCU's when I have no fear of walking. They like to walk so sling 'em long. Also, they will rotate more than an Alien will on account of a stiffer stem. Same thing with Camalots and Friends. If you don't think it will hold if it will rotate, find another placement. U stems are easier to control while buzzed about falling. That's all.
|
|
|
|
|
mustclimb69
Nov 17, 2003, 10:26 PM
Post #16 of 17
(2450 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 5, 2002
Posts: 479
|
Besides the usual it depens on the placement
I prefer U stem for Horizontal cracks and single for vertical cracks.
In some instances placing a U stem can pry the lobes and risk popping the front lobe out. That said I have seen instances when a fall has wrenched the cam downward and Burried the trigger partially in the crack making it diffucult to remove. BD cams have a single stem and twin axels most versitile cam (opinion) or as most prefer go passive in shotty placements. A tri-cam will sit nice, or you can play with a hex. Tri-cams are smaller and mave bomber placements on shallow /shotty cracks
|
|
|
|
|
gunkiemike
Nov 19, 2003, 3:26 AM
Post #17 of 17
(2450 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 1, 2002
Posts: 2266
|
Just remember: U frames are flexible in only one plane (i.e. it you place them in a horizontal, they can flex up & down). Single stems are flexible in all directions, though some are pretty stiff while others like the Zeros are nice & floppy.
Note - floppy can make them harder to remove.
|
|
|
|
|
|
