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jt512
Feb 23, 2002, 2:44 AM
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Both gates should face the same direction. It is the safer configuration when the route traverses.
-Jay
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fo_d
Feb 23, 2002, 3:40 AM
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BD recomends both the same.
Les
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gekolimit
Feb 23, 2002, 4:58 AM
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Thats bull....IT all depends on the dirrection in which you climb. As long as the bottom bener of your quickdraw faces away from the horrizontal dirrection your climbing in its good. This ensures that during a fall your rope doesn't slide along the side with the lever, minimizing the chance that it unclips itself during a fall.
If you climb to the right (for e.g.) and your quickdraw pulls upthen the topbener should face to the left.
It depends on the situations. Sometimes they should be facing the same dirrection, other times the opposite dirrections. Just make sure the lever parts are facing away from the dirrection you climb in. If you climb straight up then it doesn't really matter in which dirrection you clip them.
If your not sure to which side of the runner you are going to fall and you wanna be extra safe just clip in two runners to the same bolt which face in different dirrections from eachother. Or what you can also do in such a case is rotate the bottom bener around so that the levers hindge point is at the bottom.
Just let me say...These are the ideal ways to do it, however most of the time ppl just do it any dirrection they want.
The question is do you want 95% safety or 100% safety. My opinuion, it all depends on the situation.
By the way if i'm not being clear...then email me.
I recomend 10 - 15 quickdraws.
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beta
Feb 23, 2002, 5:43 AM
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OK,
I have always been of the school that the rope come "out" to the climber regardless of the direction of the draws in relation to each other, based on the rope end of the 'biner. This is also based on the direction the climber takes after clipping in said 'biner.
Is there a problem with that?
Let me know, maybe I have been doing it wrong all these years.
beta
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russman
Feb 23, 2002, 5:55 AM
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I learned to have the biners facing opposite sides and that when you clip...the rope shoudl always be in the middle and teh biners the rope is in should face away or out from the direction you climb. basically thinking that the rope is in the middle and all the gates open out.
I have found, that at least for me, it is easyer to clip the bolt toward me with the top biner rather than trying to clip away...I can get my weight off balance and then....OPPPS there I go right off the wall
........"FALLING"
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fo_d
Feb 24, 2002, 3:15 AM
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I dont think there was any question of how the rope came thru the biner. the question was about the orientation of the biners on the draw, not how you clip, I simply give the info that Back diamond give in the 2001 catalog, along with how the rope biner should be oriented they recomend that both biners go the same direction. Even though the draws I bought from them came with the biners in different directions, I switched them around.
One more thing, after talking to other experianced climbers, it seems that the way the biners face on the draw is not a huge issue, BD found some small reason for the orientation they reccomended (I cant remember what it said the reason was). clipping with the rope biner in the right direction is a huge deal and I wouldnt try to describe it here because I might confuse someone that didnt know, you need an experianced climber to show you this.
Les
ok you can have at my q-rating now
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jt512
Feb 24, 2002, 4:10 AM
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fo_d, BD isn't who found that the draws should face the same direction. Sport climbers figured this out years ago. BD finally caught on (and I think I know who told them), starting selling their draws this way, and now explain why in their catalog. The reason is not a minor one, and is this:
Consider a route that procedes diagonally up and left of the bolt. As everybody knows, you place your draw such that the spine of the bottom biner faces left. So far, so good. Now here is something you've probably never noticed before (but hopefully after this post you will): As the climber moves up and left past the bolt, his rope lifts the draw, causing it to rotate clockwise in the bolt hanger. If the gates of the biners are oriented opposite to each other, then, as the draw rotates, the gate of the upper biner can end up in the bolt hanger. A fall in this situation is likely to cause the upper biner to unclip from the bolt, or cause the upper biner to fail due to crossloading of the gate.
On the other hand, if the draw is set up with the gates of the two biners facing the same direction (right, in this case), then it will be the spine of the upper biner that gets pulled into the hanger. This isn't ideal either, but it's far safer than having the gate through the bolt.
I know it's not intuitive or easy to visualize that the rope will cause the draw to rotate as the climber passes above it and to the side, but you can and will see this for yourself if you look for it next time you see someone leading a sport or gym route that proceeds diagonally up.
As this phenomenon becomes more widely known, climbing instruction books will start recommending that draws be oriented with the gates facing the same direction, as the BD catalog now recommends. In fact, at least one newer book does recommend this.
-Jay
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fo_d
Feb 24, 2002, 5:24 AM
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jt512, thank you for the info. It seems to me that BD made it sound they discovered this but it didnt matter to me, I decided then that my biners would face the same direction, and I set up all of my draws that way since then. I was just getting a little defensive because someone made it seem like I was giving bad info and then a couple of people decided that the subject was how the rope was clipped into the biner. gekolimit said "Thats bull....IT all depends on the dirrection in which you climb. As long as the bottom bener of your quickdraw faces away from the horrizontal dirrection your climbing in its good." So I'll stop talking now before I really confuse things here.
Les
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fo_d
Feb 24, 2002, 5:58 AM
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I dont know anything bout the crags over there, but in our local crag most routes dont use more than 6 but there is one that needs 11, I own 12.
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climbingaddict
Feb 24, 2002, 5:17 PM
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i have to agree with geckolimit on this one. It all depends on the route you're climbing. And by the way, the amount of biners you should carry usually depends on the route. But, to be on the safe side, always carry at least one or more extras. Just in case you need them and something happends to the other runners(quickdraw).. But, what's for sure is that you always want to be careful while leading. And happy leading
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russman
Feb 24, 2002, 5:25 PM
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ht512...great explanation...i guess I will now change my ways and hope to hell I can keep my balance wheile I try to clip awya from me
made a very good explanation. Thanx...I learned my 1 thing for teh day
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jt512
Feb 24, 2002, 7:45 PM
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How many draws you need depends on the routes you'll be climbing. The most draws I've needed on a route has been 18 (16 bolts + 2-bolt anchor).
If you climb with partners who have at least a partial set of draws, you can initially get away with buying fewer, since you can borrow from your partner. Eventually, though, you'll want a full set of your own, so that you and your partner can each set up your own routes to work.
-Jay
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climbingaddict
Feb 26, 2002, 12:20 PM
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that's the way things should be.. Alwyas learning new things, right russman..
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theamish
Feb 26, 2002, 3:59 PM
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May I add one other thing about draws ... always use the same biner on your draw as the rope biner every time. Reason: when you place a biner on a bolt hanger it can get small structual burrs which, in turn, can damage your rope if you swap ends.
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