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climberzmom
Dec 13, 2003, 9:24 PM
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I am a worried Mom. My 16 year old son wants to climb the nose of El Capitain this summer. I don't want to underestimate his abilities but this really scares me. I thought that I would seek the opinion of those in the climbing community on this. His experience in climbing thus far is as follows:
-- Five years of experience in trad climbing, bouldering, and indoor climbing.
-- Experience in trad climbing in Yosemite
-- Confident 5.10 trad leader
-- has clean aid climbing experience
My son is very mature and responsible. I don't want to thwart his dreams but I don't want to put him in harms way either.
If you have any thoughts on this I would really like to hear them.
Thanks.
Climberzmom
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climber49er
Dec 13, 2003, 9:35 PM
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As the Mom, until he is 18, as I understand it , you have the power and authortity to say no. If he is truly mature he will respect your decision.
*Climber49er dodges rotten tomatoes*
That said, assuming everything you have said is true about him and that he has experience on a big walls, or will have plenty before the Nose, he is likely to be ok. I said likely, not definitely. If I were you I would give serious scrutiny to his choice of partner and their qualifications also.
If you have red flags going off for any reasonable reason just tell him to wait until he is 18 and is hopefully a more accurate judge of his own and otheres abilities. Waiting a couple years won't hurt him a bit. Getting on something he's not ready for could not just hurt him, it could kill him.
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coldclimb
Dec 13, 2003, 9:42 PM
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I wish I had an opportunity to climb el cap soon.
If I was your son, I'd be dying to do it too, but I would want to be absolutely sure I would be all right. Is he going with someone who has done this before? Has he done big walls like this before?
I'm 17 myself, and finally to the point where my parents will actually let me go into the mountains for weeks without being there watching over me to keep me safe. I figure that if I had the gear and a good partner, I would be able to climb El Cap safely, but I would want more experience. Sounds like your son has more trad under his belt than me though. Ultimately, he is probably the best judge of whether he is ready or not. Do you trust his judgement? :)
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petsfed
Dec 13, 2003, 9:44 PM
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Find out who he's going with and urge him to get more aiding experience before he takes on the big stone. Two big wall gumbies and nobody else can be a recipe for disaster. However, bear in mind that the entire Nose is equipped such that one can bail off of every single pitch. Also, when did he start leading trad? Two weeks ago, two months ago, two years ago? Does he consistently climb at his peak grade (5.10 as you said)? Can he deal with exposure? Does he have the necessary equipment (jumars, wall harness, daisies, aiders, pulley, quite a few others)? Can he pick a smaller route (Leaning Tower for example) to assuage your worries? And last but not least, are you prepared to trust him enough to not worry yourself to death?
My mother hates that I climb, but she knows my abilities and she knows how my mind works. I don't take risks that I don't need to, and I have a neurosis about safety. Do you know your son well enough to let him go and do this?
These are not solutions to your problem, they are simply paths you need to tread. If you are still uncomfortable even if there are no technical reasons to be so, then just talk to him. Either you're being rational, or you're not, but I can't say based on what you've told us.
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bsmoot
Dec 14, 2003, 12:49 AM
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climberzmom,
How much aid climbing does he have? Has he ever done shorter walls before? If your son has LOTS of Aid experience, he should be fine. Experience=Safety
My mom had the same worry. I climbed my first wall when I was 17 years old. We (my twin brother & I) practiced a lot. I think we did at least 20 pitches of aid before we tried a wall. We started with smaller walls before trying El Cap. This is highly recommended! We were very successful in climbing walls & had no close calls. Our preparation was Key.
I thank my parents to no end for supporting my climbing...I even got climbing gear for christmas! Now I'm 43 and look back on my wall climbing days as perhaps the greatest experiences of my life. Reaching my climbing goals helped teach me all about hard work and attaining other goals in life. Now I have a wife, 3 kids and a successful business. I'm grateful for parents that believed in me!
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roadguy
Dec 14, 2003, 1:05 AM
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Just make sure his partner has a stack of experience. If it's his first time on El Cap then think twice..but at his age, with the passions of youth and a decent partner....meet him on the summit with something decadant.
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mrme
Dec 14, 2003, 1:11 AM
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just because you have been climbing that long does not mean you know what your doing. i have seen some very shadey trips put together by self proclaimed know it alls. not saying your son dosent have his sh*t together. make sure he knows how to jug a line, haul a pig, at least one other way to get down if he drops his belly plate, at least one other way to ascend a rope if he would drop a jummar. you know stuff like that. stuff alot of the 'seasond' climbers i have met have no clue what to do. and like everyone else said make sure you know who his partner and what they know also 'assuming he is not going solo'. oh yea thats another one whats a good way to rescue your secound or leader if they get hurt ? do you know how to continue a climb or back off if the other one gets to seriously injured by unforseen cercimstances. if he doesn't know or you don't think he can figure it out on the go. hire a guide to show him if you can. or get some books from the library and have him and his partner practice the stuff once. be suportive of his dreams and help him out if he needs it. and if he doesn't and he knows his stuff i would think about all the other things he could be doing and be glad that he is on a wall were you know he is. as long as he makes good disisions he should be realitivly safe.
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gunked
Dec 14, 2003, 1:32 AM
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If your son is climbing with a big-wall veteran (one with lots of big-wall experience), and they're not doing it during a questionable weather season (now, for instance is a bad time!) then great! I'd probably let him have a go at it. A "little clean-climbing" experience is just not enough, I believe, experience to get up 33 pitches of stone for a 16 year old wall newbie. It's certainly possible, but I wouldn't recommend it.
Start with something smaller like the West face of Leaning tower. This is a good way to get his feet wet and "deal" with the systems that he will encounter on a big-wall. I'd recommend for him to practice his hauling techniques and all possible rescue (self-rescue!) scenarios. He should seriously think about all of the worst-possible-case scenarios and what he would do to deal with them..And, what gear he would need to bring with him to accomplish this task.
In my experience, something ALWAYS goes a little wrong on a wall because you're dealing with so many things under stress (there's always at least a little stress or at the very least...hyper-awareness which will cause stress). The important thing is to keep one's head and figure out a way to deal with it. A big-wall climber is: part climber, part engineer wrapped up in a package that's willing and able to deal with the challenge under stress (extreme, if necessary) to do whatever it takes to ensure victory. Victory, for the record, is not summitting! It is having an adventure and being able to walk away in one piece so you can have another one in the future.
Is your son mature enough to back down when necessary? Is he mature enough to seek the necessary tools that will aid him in his adventure (advice, for instance)?
Good luck in both of your decisions.
Jason :D
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fredbob
Dec 14, 2003, 1:40 AM
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I did my first wall when I was 17 and my parents had no idea what I was doing during my summer trip to Yosemite. If his climbing experience is as you describe, sounds like he has more than enough to try to climb the Nose. I'm impressed that you know as much about his climbing experience (and plans) as you do; sounds like he is pretty responsible.
As others have wisely suggested, find out with whom he is planning on doing the route. His/her experience is just as important as your son's. But contrary to the advise of others, if his partner has roughly equivalent experience, they should be fine.
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dynoer
Dec 14, 2003, 1:41 AM
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Personally I wouldn't consider El Cap to be "starter" wall. Even if he has an experienced partner he should "prove" himself on a smaller wall first! Whats the hurry if hes ready for the nose he should be able to fire the Washington Column with ease. Thats just my opinion though. I was glad to have done the "prow" and the "w. face " of the leaning tower prior to my first 'El Cap" route.
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fiend
Dec 14, 2003, 1:54 AM
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Wow, a lot of cautious people here.
I understand your misgivings about your son undertaking something like climbing the nose, but keep in mind that a fall from 2000ft off the deck is no worse than a fall from 200ft. If he already climbs outside and does multi-pitch trad and aid then he should be fine on the Captain.
Find a topo of the Nose and check the grades of all the pitches, if they seem to be within his capabilities and he's going with an experienced partner then why not? Some kids are as mature at 16 as a lot of adults are at 35.
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rck_climber
Dec 14, 2003, 4:15 AM
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Mark (fiend) above has a great point.
Clearly with your use of the vocabulary, you've got a pretty strong grasp of climbing. My suggestion would be to sit down with him and walk through the plan, pitch by pitch. Planning is everything in long routes and walking through it with him may help him to grasp the gravity (pun intended) of the undertaking. Some things I would consider is a plan for each pitch - gear needed, how to approach it, who's leading it and what escape options. Also, look at it logistically - how long they plan to take, how much food, water, gear, clothing, etc. they'll need, and where, how, when they plan to bivy each night.
The old military saying goes "Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance", and I live by it - so far so good. Good planning will also reveal any holes in the initial plan that need to be better addressed to avoid any unnecessary epics.
Sounds like he'll be just fine, but if you follow these suggestions I think you'll both have more confidence in your decision.
Good luck and I hope this helps.
Mick
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Dec 14, 2003, 4:28 AM
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why, heck, i joined the marines when i was seventeen (back in *cough* 1978)!
if he's as able as you made him out to be, let him cast off on his dream. best wishes to [i:6b4d7f7813]both[/i:6b4d7f7813] of you!
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okinawatricam
Dec 14, 2003, 4:34 AM
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If the experience you describe is acurate, sounds like your son should be fine. I celebrated my sixteenth birthday by doing my first wall, at the time, I was not able to climb 5.11 (Before sport/gyms) and I had limited experience with aid. What I did have was lots of climbing experience, including long multipitch routes.
Since our aid skills were our weakness, my partner and I had aided about three pitches and the aid boulder, we decided to do leaning tower. The aid was pretty straight foward and the hauling easy. By the time we top out the tower, we were more knowledgeable in aid.
With that said, if hi gear is good, and he practices some aid/hauling: all should be fine. The Nose isn't that complicated.
Eman
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one900johnnyk
Dec 14, 2003, 4:41 AM
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ground his ass for even thinking about it
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addiroids
Dec 14, 2003, 4:53 AM
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Okay, time for my 2 cents too. Yeah, the Nose isn't as complicated as other walls, but another point not mentioned is lower-outs. Know how to do the 4:1 lower-out through a leaver sling (or pin tie-off). Also, safe back-cleaning is helpful for some of the zig zagging pitches (after the Dolt tower, after the king swing). As one who hasn't done the Nose yet (plan is under 24 hrs in May for me) but has a good amount of knowledge and solid experience and is very confident in my ability for May, I would say he has a good chance of safe success. Now if he hasn't gotten into leading in blocks and short fixing, I will say that it will be a lot more work than it should be, but we all have to suffer before learning the "better way" as one of the aid gurus on this site calls it.
Just make sure he doesn't bail because he is tired or it's too hard. It will be hard, encourage him in what he does (it sounds like you are already really involved in his life - good!) and give him and his partner a day lesson from a guide for Christmas. You would be SUPRISED how much a private 8 hour lesson will help them to just get the kinks worked out.
Thanks for taking such an interest in his life when most parents just faint when their sons (me) talk about what we do as a lifestyle (climbing isn't a sport when you are an aids climber).
TRADitionally yours,
Cali Dirtbag
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anothertucsonclimber
Dec 14, 2003, 6:02 AM
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I'm 28 years old - my mom still doesn't know I'v been riding around on a motorcycle for the last 5 years.....Climbing, she has no clue.....I'ts not that I'm afraid to tell her - I'ts that I KNOW what her reation would be - Please, don't be a worry wart...! Make sure he's with someone who knows what they are doing - go and watch him climb ! See what you think for yourself while you watch him climb something a bit easier than the Cap.
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sspssp
Dec 14, 2003, 6:05 AM
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Make sure he takes appropriate gear (clothing, rain gear, and plenty of water).
Another, perhaps minor, consideration. If he is like most, apsiring, big wall climbers (and if he is not climbing with an experienced big wall partner), he will probably bail before he gets too far. Very few newbies move fast enough to summit on their first attempts (and please, no flames from those of you that did). Especially trying to get a heavy haul bag up that many pitches.
It sounds like he has enough experience to be safe, as long as he has a safe, mental outlook.
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climberzmom
Dec 14, 2003, 9:09 PM
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Thanks for taking the time to respond. I appreciate your thoughts.
Climberzmom
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climberzmom
Dec 14, 2003, 9:11 PM
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Thanks for taking the time to respond. I appreciate your thoughts.
Climberzmom
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okinawatricam
Feb 18, 2004, 4:42 AM
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Make sure you come and let us know how it went.
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chadmartin
Feb 18, 2004, 4:53 AM
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He is sixteen? Hmmm! get involved as much as possible! Help him make sure the trip is planned as much as possible! Make sure all of the "t's" are crossed, and all of the "i's" dotted! Any thing that goes wrong, such as forgetting to pack certain clothes, running out of gas on the side of the highway, etc. because of oversights, or anything like that, at his age will seriously damper his thrill from the sport! He sounds like the makings of a great climber! Make sure everything under your power goes well for him"
I agree about watching out for even any yellow flags! You are the mother! You can still say "No!" The mountain will always be there! If he gets mad, tell him that he can make his own opportunities to climb it once he is older!
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curt
Feb 18, 2004, 4:54 AM
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In reply to: I did my first wall when I was 17 and my parents had no idea what I was doing during my summer trip to Yosemite. If his climbing experience is as you describe, sounds like he has more than enough to try to climb the Nose. I'm impressed that you know as much about his climbing experience (and plans) as you do; sounds like he is pretty responsible. As others have wisely suggested, find out with whom he is planning on doing the route. His/her experience is just as important as your son's. But contrary to the advise of others, if his partner has roughly equivalent experience, they should be fine.
I'll cast my vote with Randy here. Your son sounds like he has the technical skills required. The key question I would also have for you is - who will his partner be for The Nose? Does he/she have similar experience and skills?
Curt
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Feb 18, 2004, 4:55 AM
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he'll be fine. he'll either get up the thing, or he won't. either way, it's a good experience. send him on his way. the best thing you can do as a mom is give him a bagged lunch.
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kalcario
Feb 18, 2004, 4:56 AM
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*All* 16 year old climbers think they're going to climb El Cap-or they used to, anyway. Then when they actually get there, reality usually rears it's ugly head and they end up doing a lesser wall like Half Dome or the Column, if that. I did my first wall when I was 16 (Half Dome) and had to literally run away from home to do it, it must be nice to have supportive parents. If he makes it 400' up the Nose without mishap, the rest is a factor of determination and youthful passion. And being solid at 5.10+ crack climbing is more important than aid skills. I'd say wait till you are solid up to the 11b-c level on cracks, that way you will float the 5.10 pitches and not cause gridlock for other parties on the route. Plus you will enjoy the route more.
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