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dingus
Dec 16, 2003, 3:50 PM
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dmt
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deleted
Deleted
Dec 16, 2003, 3:52 PM
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[i:a1b7531b92]nice[/i:a1b7531b92], dingus. :wink:
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mother_sheep
Dec 16, 2003, 4:09 PM
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I'm a mountaineering alpinist.
Or maybe I'm an alpinist mountaineer.
Hmmmm. . ..
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capn_morgan
Dec 16, 2003, 4:26 PM
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Thats what makes us "special". And why Alpinism will never become a popular pastime.
If its easy and success is guaranteed, is it worth doing? It is alot like playing poker, it requires skill and awareness, But if the cards don't fall in your favor you need to know when to get out. 8)
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the_pirate
Dec 16, 2003, 4:39 PM
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I thought it had to do with whether you peed inside or outside the tent.... 8)
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tim
Dec 16, 2003, 4:42 PM
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# of fingers and toes
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capn_morgan
Dec 16, 2003, 4:48 PM
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hmm...dont alot of people on guided expiditions who get in trouble loose digits?
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maldaly
Dec 16, 2003, 5:00 PM
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The simplest answer? With no disrespect, mountaineers walk up mountains (Often with ropes, etc.) and alpinists climb them.
MCD
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mother_sheep
Dec 16, 2003, 5:20 PM
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In reply to: The simplest answer? With no disrespect, mountaineers walk up mountains (Often with ropes, etc.) and alpinists climb them. MCD
This is kind of the way that I look at it too. When I hike up 14'ers, I classify that as mountaineering. When I technically climb them, I classify that as alpinism. But what about alpine snow slogs that require the use of pickets and such? I classify that as mountaineering as well. Throw in some technical rock and ice and then I call it alpinism. Seems like alpinists and mountaineers are synonymous in many ways. Would be interesting to hear Mark Twight's opinion on the differences. I've seen Sir Edmund Hillary classified as a mountaineer but I imagine he can easily also be categorized as an alpinist.
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capn_morgan
Dec 16, 2003, 5:28 PM
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Seige style climbs of large mountains/walls would seem to fall under mountaineering.
Alpinism is to mountaineering what ultralight backpacking is to your typical 60lb pack carrying trudgefest. carry less, go faster.
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jebel_andi
Dec 16, 2003, 5:44 PM
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who pees in the tent and who doesn't? mountaineers or alpinists?
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the_pirate
Dec 16, 2003, 5:47 PM
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In reply to: who pees in the tent and who doesn't? mountaineers or alpinists?
Mountaineers get out of the tent to pee.
Alpinists pee in a bottle and store that at the bottom of their sleeping bag.
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jkarns
Dec 16, 2003, 5:47 PM
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I always kinda thought that mountaineering requires glacier travel.
Alpinism requires technical rock and/or ice at altitude (but might NOT require glacier travel)
Climbing a mountain that requires NEITHER of these is just hiking.
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yeti
Dec 16, 2003, 5:48 PM
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Doesn't this denomination date back to the period when mountain climbing was exported to other ranges than the Alps? In french, there is such a thing as an Andinist and a Himalayist. Couldn't mountaineering just be the general term for mountain climbing, and couldn't alpinism just be mountaineering in the Alps?
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jebel_andi
Dec 16, 2003, 5:48 PM
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who pees in the tent and who doesn't? mountaineers or alpinists?
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burcham
Dec 16, 2003, 6:13 PM
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I was interested to know how the difference came about (not that for a second I doubted the authenticity of the number of toes explanation.) So I poked around the net a little and found this on the UIAA (Internatinal Mountaineering & Climbing Federation) website. Turns out Alpinists are simply French mountaineers... :?
"Because the exploration of mountains was first developed in the Alps, the term alpinism was rapidly adopted to describe the new occupation. When climbers began to take on the Andes and the Himalayas, there arose the neologisms andinism and himalayanism despite the fact that the occupation remained unchanged. But it was soon recognized that the original word was more practical. We shall therefore use the term alpinism or (in the English translation) mountaineering to describe our sport without in any way intending to impose on others the thought that climbers in the Alps are in any way entitled to supremacy!"
--UIAA Introduction - History
I know this definition doesn't exactly g-haul with definitions state-side...but it's interesting none the less.
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cryder
Dec 16, 2003, 6:26 PM
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Alpinist vs. Mountaineer. Hmmm... to the general public, its a meaningless differentation when the ultimate measurable is still wether or not you stand on top of something really high and really scary. To us, its our very own caste system that transcends every corner of our sport and ironically undermines the freedom we intend for ourselves by climbing in the first place.
Its rather odd that we consider ourselves "alpinists". I dont consider myself an alpinist simply because the style in which I climb sometimes conforms with a trendy expectation of convention. The ethic of Alpinism is a wonderful dynamic objective, but not a susinct identity that I feel I can own as a static moniker.
I wonder if our need for alpinism is a product of the climbers fasination with the extreme pursuits, and has relpaced "the unclimbed" with "the unclimbed ______ (insert clever route name here) of _______ (insert trendy mountain range here)". Ultimately its a transitional means to an end that hinges on redefining what is possible, and fuels our basic need to redefine ourselves at the same time.
- n -
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taualum23
Dec 16, 2003, 6:53 PM
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Cryder,
I have to say that is one of the most intelligent and insightful posts I have ever seen on this site. Thank you.
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cryder
Dec 16, 2003, 6:58 PM
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Awww shucks. :oops:
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janr
Dec 16, 2003, 7:04 PM
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In reply to: to the general public, its a meaningless differentation when the ultimate measurable is still wether or not you stand on top of something really high and really scary
I think you have hit the nail on the head. The ultimate measureable for the general public is the summit. It may also be the same for the majority of mountaineers.
But for the alpinist, the route is the goal. Alpinists sometimes do not bother with the summit.
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punk
Dec 16, 2003, 7:08 PM
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Alpinist vs. Mountaineer
They are one and the same it is jus a chestbeat contest…who cares??? Climb in whatever style u choose and label yourself according to your self insecurity (Yeah… need to sound cools for the chicks and the gapers)
I call myself an outdoor enthusiast without the trendy label bull
Alpinist…Mountaineer… Aid…Trad it is all labeling…and one crock-o-shait if u think that it makes any difference
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tim
Dec 16, 2003, 7:59 PM
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back to more important matters:
punk, YM 'Outkast'.
HTH
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punk
Dec 16, 2003, 8:03 PM
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In reply to: back to more important matters: punk, YM 'Outkast'. HTH
ya rite
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capn_morgan
Dec 16, 2003, 8:31 PM
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"outdoor enthusiast" now that makes me giggle :lol:
Is that kinda like being "outdoorsy" ?
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