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Piton question
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kevinwaldock


Dec 29, 2003, 3:26 PM
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Piton question
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this question may sound dumb so bare with me, when one uses a piton will it be cleaned by the second, or left and in what cases are pitons used nowadays i know they use to be used exclusivly for pro before the advent of traditional protection like nuts cams etc. but where are they used in da new millenium.


diesel___smoke


Dec 29, 2003, 4:54 PM
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You should repost this in the Aid forum... There are many experts there that would explain pin usage.

Jp


Partner rrrADAM


Dec 29, 2003, 4:58 PM
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rrrADAM moved this thread [In reply to]
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rrrADAM moved this thread from General to Aid Climbing.


smellyhippie


Dec 29, 2003, 6:42 PM
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Nowadays pins are usually used in alpine climbing and on harder aid climbs. They are typically cleaned by the follower, but at times might be left in place.
Nate


atg200


Dec 29, 2003, 6:47 PM
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we also use them to create free climbs.


copperhead


Dec 29, 2003, 7:03 PM
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In reply to:
we also use them to create free climbs.





eeeeeeeeeekk!!!!


Partner calamity_chk


Dec 29, 2003, 7:15 PM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
we also use them to create free climbs.





eeeeeeeeeekk!!!!

haha. copperhead, i think that atg should be banned from the aid forum for a week or so for that post .. what do you think?? :P


flamer


Dec 29, 2003, 9:24 PM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
we also use them to create free climbs.





eeeeeeeeeekk!!!!

haha. copperhead, i think that atg should be banned from the aid forum for a week or so for that post .. what do you think?? :P
CHILL WOMAN!!!
josh


Partner calamity_chk


Dec 30, 2003, 7:25 AM
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/me pokes her tongue out at flamer ... "make me" .. hehehe.

besides, i'm a former mod nazi, it's only normal that i should seek to ban, tarpit, and over-moderate in general. :roll:


tedc


Dec 30, 2003, 7:47 AM
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Not sure why this got moved to Aid Climbing?? It is a general topic. Pins are quite useful in both mixed and alpine climbing. I generally use them if I don't think the climbing will be degraded for the next party. I will leave a pin in if I think removing it will ruin the placement for the next party AND if the placement is BOMBER and likely to stay that way for a while.


epic_ed


Dec 30, 2003, 8:56 AM
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Climbers still use them to aid past sections where clean gear just won't work. Sometimes it's a climbers choice whether he/she wants to use a bunk clean piece or a more solid hammered pin. I've done a limited amount of nailing, but when I have, it's usually because the seam is too thin or shallow to accept any other kind of pro. Uh-oh...I feel another piton debate coming on.

And Amber is banned from the aid forum for a week. Brat. :P

Ed


(Ban mentioned above is strictly a joke and not meant to be inFLAMERtory nor taken seriously in any form or fashion by pin-headed ner-do-wells who can't take a freakin joke. :mrgreen: )


epic_ed


Dec 30, 2003, 9:01 AM
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In reply to:
Not sure why this got moved to Aid Climbing?? It is a general topic. Pins are quite useful in both mixed and alpine climbing. I generally use them if I don't think the climbing will be degraded for the next party. I will leave a pin in if I think removing it will ruin the placement for the next party AND if the placement is BOMBER and likely to stay that way for a while.

Ted, you'd be challenged to find anyone on this site who uses pins outside of the context of aiding (a handful of members, including yourself). Sure, they are still used as part of alpine climbing but for the general membership on this website the use of pitons applies mainly to aid climbers.

Ed


Partner calamity_chk


Dec 30, 2003, 9:04 AM
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And Amber is banned from the aid forum for a week. Brat. :P

'doh.

though, i dont think a week-ban will work for someone as onry as i am - perhaps a partner for echo tower in the late spring would make me stop posting in forums where my .02 is pretty much worthless. :P


crotch


Dec 30, 2003, 9:35 AM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
Not sure why this got moved to Aid Climbing?? It is a general topic. Pins are quite useful in both mixed and alpine climbing. I generally use them if I don't think the climbing will be degraded for the next party. I will leave a pin in if I think removing it will ruin the placement for the next party AND if the placement is BOMBER and likely to stay that way for a while.

Ted, you'd be challenged to find anyone on this site who uses pins outside of the context of aiding (a handful of members, including yourself). Sure, they are still used as part of alpine climbing but for the general membership on this website the use of pitons applies mainly to aid climbers.

Ed

I find that I use pins far more while alpine climbing than while aid climbing. In aid climbing, pins seem to be used in the more tenuous realms of the sport, whereas they are justifiable even on easy alpine ground where cams would have no holding power in an iced crack.


diesel___smoke


Dec 31, 2003, 7:14 PM
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http://www.rockclimbing.com/...n=Show&PhotoID=23029
Pitons...
(Most will know this already so it might not be worth reading)
These are some of the various types of pitons. Each serves a different purpose but ultimately have one singular goal. Pitons are still widely used
today but certain kinds have become obsolete due to advancements in climbing technology and technique. Bongs (two pictured in the lower right hand corner), for instance, have become replaced by cams.
Larger angles (Lower right hand corner, 3rd and 4th from the right) have too been largely replaced by cams. Baby Angles and sawed-offs still
have their place on many routes, mostly nail-ups. Lost Arrows (Middle row, except three at the right) are still very widely used and possibly the
most popular type of piton. Sometimes, Trango Ballnutz can be used instead of some LA placements. Z-tons (Middle row, 1st and 2nd from the right) are still
somewhat used but mainly for 'odd' placements, they've become somewhat replaced by cams like angles but still have their place on most aid
climbers racks. The top level is various types of thin nailing pins, first one from the right is a RURP designed by Yvon Chouinard in the 60's I
believe. The RURP (Realized Ultimate Reality Piton) is for thin, shallow cracks - working wonders on diagonial and horizontial cracks where beaks
would simply have too much torque. The next two from the right after the RURP are Mallard Wedge Hooks from PIKA, which would be used for
vertical thin shallow cracks, as would the next in line, the Auk Seam hooks and BD Peckers. A few Knifeblades and Bugaboos used for thin,
deeper cracks. Last three are Tuocan Cam Blades which are for thin nailing too, have a camming action due to a bend in the shaft (The Auk Seam Hooks have this bend too).

Of course this isn't exhaustive, but should be helpful.

Jp


diesel___smoke


Dec 31, 2003, 9:19 PM
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http://www.rockclimbing.com/...p.cgi?Detailed=23029
(russman fixed pic and linking probs)

This description is to go with the photo but it appears that will not work...

Pitons...
(Most will know this already so it might not be worth reading)
These are some of the various types of pitons. Each serves a different purpose or use in different situations but ultimately have one singular goal. Pitons are still widely used today but certain kinds have become obsolete due to advancements in climbing technology and technique. Bongs (two pictured in the lower right hand corner), for instance, have become replaced by cams. Larger angles (Lower right hand corner, 3rd and 4th from the right) have too been largely replaced by cams. Baby Angles and sawed-offs still have their place on many routes, mostly nail-ups. Lost Arrows (Middle row, except three at the right) are still very widely used and possibly the most popular type of piton. Sometimes, Trango Ballnutz can be used instead of some LA placements. Z-tons (Middle row, 1st and 2nd from the right) are still somewhat used but mainly for 'odd' placements, they've become somewhat replaced by cams like angles but still have their place on most aid climbers racks. The top level is various types of thin nailing pins, first one from the right is a RURP designed by Yvon Chouinard in the 60's I believe. The RURP (Realized Ultimate Reality Piton) is for thin, shallow cracks - working wonders on diagonal and horizontal cracks where beaks would simply have too much torque. The next two from the right after the RURP are Mallard Wedge Hooks from PIKA, which would be used for vertical thin shallow cracks, as would the next in line, the Auk Seam hooks and BD Peckers. A few Knifeblades and Bugaboos used for thin, deeper cracks. Last three are Tuocan Cam Blades which are for thin nailing too, have a camming action due to a bend in the shaft (The Auk Seam Hooks have this bend too).

Of course this isn't exhaustive, but should be helpful.

Jp


chossmonkey


Jan 1, 2004, 9:14 AM
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At my home crag we would use pins for fixed pro on some trad routes and instead of bolting next to the one gear placement on a couple of sport routes. The problem with that was someone stole them all, making bolts the preferred choice.


bigwalling


Jan 1, 2004, 10:23 AM
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Diesel, think you have enough angles?! My pin rack is heavy on beaks, blades, and arrows.

If you want your beaks to get a camming action or place them in corners(with greater ease) just put them in your vise and hammer at them a little to give the beak a nice curve to it. Than way you tear up the wire or tie off as much. Also you can file the tips of beaks down to get them to fit into really thin stuff. I think Byran wrote a good post on this a while back, likely will make more sence than me. Maybe I'll post some pics of my modified pins.


scubasnyder


Jan 1, 2004, 2:30 PM
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:D intresting whenever i leave webbing somewhere for later climbing use someone always takes it, its horrible


crushingfinger


Jan 1, 2004, 6:00 PM
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I was just in Moad at pottash road. Can anyone tell me what the hell is up with the sport climbs there? That is not the proper use for pitons.


smellyhippie


Jan 1, 2004, 6:06 PM
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I love climbing in Potash. Yeah, those drilled angles are pretty weird, but apparently a legit soft-rock method of protecting a climb. There was a tech-tip in Climbing magazine about how to do it not too long ago, if that adds or subtracts legitamacy I don't know.

I'm sure someone around here will pop up who knows more about it.

Nate


atg200


Jan 1, 2004, 8:04 PM
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drilled angles are often better than bolts on soft sandstone, and have beena desert standard for decades. potash is a bit on the adventurous side for sport climbing and not really what i consider a sport area. the desert as a whole is pretty adventurous with very strange protection. if you don't like/understand it, its probably best to head back to maple canyon or somewhere like that instead.


tedc


Jan 2, 2004, 7:51 AM
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In reply to:
I was just in Moad at pottash road. Can anyone tell me what the hell is up with the sport climbs there?
Assuming you mean Moab; They aren't sport climbs.

In reply to:
That is not the proper use for pitons.
Yes it is.


crushingfinger


Jan 2, 2004, 7:17 PM
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Thanx nate and other's I loved the climbing there too some of the best any where just thought I'd ask, some thing I had'nt seen before.


Confusus say: he who stand on toilet high on pot. :)


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