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climbersoze
Jan 8, 2004, 8:00 PM
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I was scanning through past posts about grades and watching sport climbers and trad climbers go back and forth and blah blah blah... Well... I am just curious to find out the highest grade trad climb ever pulled off by any forum members, or a climb that you can confirm actually happened. Before I open the door to opinions on what I am asking, let me set my criteria... 1) lead the entire climb 2) placed, and relied solely on all your own pro on the way up 3) no aid climbing - I am asking about 5th class climbing only 4) single pitch (I dont care if it is pitch 12 on a big wall that you aided to get to) 5) Don't want to hear about free-solos 6) at least 5.12 please 7) redpointed climbs only, please If I am not clear enough, let me know... thanks!
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pbjosh
Jan 8, 2004, 8:09 PM
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Hardest trad redpoints that I know of are 13c and 13d. Steve Petro I think does some sick 13d roof fingers thing in Wyoming in Masters of Stone, placing gear on lead. Peter Croft onsighted w/ his own gear Van Belle o Drone (13c) or whatever it's called in the Valley. I dunno if Hidetaki Suzuki pinkpointed or redpointed Stingray @ Jtree. It's 13d. Country Boy, 13d, at Lumpy Ridge has been redpointed by both Tommy Caldwell and Beth Rodden. Dihedron at Jtree is a gear 14a by Randy Leavitt but AFAIK it relies mostly on fixed pins, along with nuts placed on lead, so it's a redpoint but has fixed gear. Book of Hate (13d) in the Valley is a Randy Leavitt gear placed on lead redpoint AFAIK. Probably fixed pins as well but I'm not sure. AFAIK the hardest free pitches on El Cap are mostly if not all pinkpointed, and all check in around 13b (Salathe Headwall) to 13d (Zodiac). I think Lynn Hill technically redpointed The Nose on her one day ascent but relied (obviously) extensively on fixed gear. She also called it 13b vs. other's opinions that it's more like 13d or harder. As far as invalid stuff by your definitions, the new 14a crack in the rags recently in Europe was pinkpointed, as was Ron Kauks pinkpoint of Magic Line (14b). I don't know anything about Rob Candelaria's old supposed 14a crack in Colorado. Anyone who knows otherwise from what I've said above, please correct.
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rrrADAM
Jan 8, 2004, 8:17 PM
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The hardest Trad climb I've led was a sustained .10d in Yosemite. I have done an .11a before, but it was pretty much a one move wonder, so I don't really count that.
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marks
Jan 8, 2004, 8:30 PM
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iv done a e6 7a,its hard to convert to yds but it was a v9 dyno above gear but not a ground fall.http://www.rockclimbing.com/photos.php?Action=Show&PhotoID=12706
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rrrADAM
Jan 8, 2004, 8:42 PM
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rrrADAM moved this thread from General to Trad Climbing.
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thomaskeefer
Jan 8, 2004, 9:01 PM
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I dont think that there is any debate about what grade the 'average' sport climber can pull down as opposed to the average trad climber and who is pulling down the higher number. I think that the debate lies in what they are all about... Sport climbing hard routes is an incredible feat of pure strength that is 100% focused on the route. It is incredible how far the limits have been pushed in this arena. Trad climing single pitch routes, in my opinion, are really just about the same as sport routes in that they are efforts based solely on the short period of time that it takes to make it to the top of the route.. Backcountry trad lines are, for the most part, easy by the standards of higher level sportclimbers. The be all and end all of these routes though is not just pulling through the moves of a crux section. It is about commitment, partnership and being out in there for a day or more. Which is more important or rewarding.. why debate it, they are totally different. Can the average backcountry alpine or trad climber pull through a 12d section on dime edges? Probably not. Can she climb 1500 feet of with occasional 5.9 sections wearing a pack~ you bet. Can the average sport climber escape a belay or safely get to the top of a major summit 20 miles from the nearest road? who knows.. Should they be recognized as being amazing marvels of strength and focus absolutely. So.. why bother debating who is better than who? They are apples and oranges.. both great but both different.. BTW same goes for bouldering! Next time you post about why you are better than the sport climber next to you remember, he can prob pull down stuff on warmup that you wouldnt dream of pulling down at the peak of your climbing.. or before you talk about how that trad guy weighs 180 lbs and can climb in the two digit grades, remember~ he has prob woken up to a sunrise and alpenglow on an incredible ledge next to one of his best friends that you can only see trough memory of his camera...
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junkie
Jan 8, 2004, 9:18 PM
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The hardest in the world is Bellavista in the Italian Dolomites, put up by Alex huber. Graded 8c (14b) and repeated by Mauro "Bubu" Bole. 1) lead the entire climb - CHECK 2) placed, and relied solely on all your own pro on the way up - CHECK 3) no aid climbing - I am asking about 5th class climbing only - CHECK 4) single pitch (I dont care if it is pitch 12 on a big wall that you aided to get to) - THE Single hardest pitch of Bellavista is 8c. There is a lot fo hard climbing before and after. 5) Don't want to hear about free-solos - He used a rope 6) at least 5.12 please - I think 8c qualifies 7) redpointed climbs only, please - YEP. The hardest by ME is 13a or b, single pitch, redpointed (yes I placed the gear as I went...but I had it sussed. I knew where everything was going before I got there), no aid.
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skiclimb
Jan 11, 2004, 9:19 AM
Post #8 of 11
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I'll throw in my vote for the Nose... :D
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madmax
Jan 13, 2004, 7:46 PM
Post #9 of 11
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Registered: Oct 23, 2003
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I tr'd Aire-Sweden (.13b?) this weekend, and while it ain't the hardest trad climb around, it sure was stout. Apparently, it has only seen one ascent.
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longalong
Jan 13, 2004, 8:05 PM
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Registered: Apr 24, 2003
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In reply to: I dont think that there is any debate about what grade the 'average' sport climber can pull down as opposed to the average trad climber and who is pulling down the higher number. I think that the debate lies in what they are all about... Sport climbing hard routes is an incredible feat of pure strength that is 100% focused on the route. It is incredible how far the limits have been pushed in this arena. Trad climing single pitch routes, in my opinion, are really just about the same as sport routes in that they are efforts based solely on the short period of time that it takes to make it to the top of the route.. Backcountry trad lines are, for the most part, easy by the standards of higher level sportclimbers. The be all and end all of these routes though is not just pulling through the moves of a crux section. It is about commitment, partnership and being out in there for a day or more. Which is more important or rewarding.. why debate it, they are totally different. Can the average backcountry alpine or trad climber pull through a 12d section on dime edges? Probably not. Can she climb 1500 feet of with occasional 5.9 sections wearing a pack~ you bet. Can the average sport climber escape a belay or safely get to the top of a major summit 20 miles from the nearest road? who knows.. Should they be recognized as being amazing marvels of strength and focus absolutely. So.. why bother debating who is better than who? They are apples and oranges.. both great but both different.. BTW same goes for bouldering! Next time you post about why you are better than the sport climber next to you remember, he can prob pull down stuff on warmup that you wouldnt dream of pulling down at the peak of your climbing.. or before you talk about how that trad guy weighs 180 lbs and can climb in the two digit grades, remember~ he has prob woken up to a sunrise and alpenglow on an incredible ledge next to one of his best friends that you can only see trough memory of his camera... I'm pretty sure that climbersoze wasn't trying to bring up the never ending sport v. trad debate. I would re-read his original post there thomas. It seems like a very legitimate question about just trad climb. There is even a comment about the sport v. trad debate blad, blah, blah. so my advice thomas is to stop being on the defesive and get over the whole debate yourself.
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climbersoze
Jan 16, 2004, 4:23 PM
Post #11 of 11
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In reply to: I'm pretty sure that climbersoze wasn't trying to bring up the never ending sport v. trad debate. Right... I was not concerned about the sport v. trad debate... but when I see that there are guys pulling 5.14+ and plugging their own gear... wow... just a wee bit harder than clipping draws :shock:
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