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beyond_gravity


Mar 14, 2002, 8:48 PM
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I'm thinking of getting some cams. I'm thinking of going with WC Forged Friends. my question is, is it worth an extra $20 to get a flexible stem??

Rock On,
JEremy

[ This Message was edited by: beyond_gravity on 2002-03-16 20:39 ]


dustinap
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Mar 14, 2002, 9:15 PM
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I don't mean to be a total looser, but since I noticed you spelled forged foraged twice, I think you actually think they're called "foraged" friends. They are in fact called forged friends. If you should spend the extra cash and get flexible or not, well, that depends on where you climb, and also just what you like.

Remeber, you will spend money getting spectra for gunks tie offs though.


apollodorus


Mar 14, 2002, 11:31 PM
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I have a foraged #4 friend. I foraged it from the first pitch of the South Face of the Washington Column.

Anyway, the rigid stem is fine (and was the only way to get them for years), especially for vertical cracks. If you intend to do horizontal placements, or stick them behind flakes, the technicolor friends are better. Basically, with the rigid stem, you have to be careful to not place them where the stem can bend; the stem has to pull straight from the sling to the axle. Sometimes, you can stick the friend deep enough into a horizontal crack, that the sling is what bends over the edge (watch for sharp ones). This sort of placement is fine.


passthepitonspete


Mar 15, 2002, 6:25 AM
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I have twenty-two year old forged Friends on my rack, and they still work fine.

You must buy some 5 mm (?) cord and tie a loop through the small hole in the stem closest to the cams. This is a clip-in loop to minimize the bending moment on the stem in horizontal placements.

There are two ways to tie this, and only one way is the better way.

You must tie it so that this cord lies beneath the stem when the two wide cams are on the bottom. This is the way you will usually rig your Friend in horizontal placements for greater stability.

Sometimes quantity is more important than quality, and an effective comprimise can be reached. If you are short on funds, and tend to climb a lot of vertical cracks, you should consider buying more forged Friends. I would not recommend buying them any smaller than a #2, at least in forged. For those smaller sizes, I would stick with flexible cams, Friends or otherwise.

I am Dr. Piton,

and my forty-four cams are second are here only to Andrew's 55 cams!

P.S. If you are ever fortunate enough to meet the right woman, you will realize that spelling counts.


joemor


Mar 16, 2002, 7:03 PM
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if you are goin to buy the forged cam and some cord for it for horizontil placements youl be getting close to the price of the flexible ones, i say go the flexi and cover more cracks. especially if they will be your first cams, youll want them to do a broard range of placements.

joe


beyond_gravity


Mar 16, 2002, 8:38 PM
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Let me bring to your attention that I don’t even have a full nut/hex rack. I guess I should probably complete that before I get some cams. Oh well, i thought i was foraged friend since I just took a quick glance in the store. Thanks.

Rock On,
Jeremy

PS: what does spelling have to do with girls???


radistrad


Mar 17, 2002, 9:08 AM
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I dont like the solid stem WC cams. In fact I dont really like the WC cams, I do own some and they sit at the bottom of the rack, right next to my Spilitter gear.
Dont waste your money on the WC Cams, buy Black Diamond or Ailens, they are totally worth the $$$.


Partner rrrADAM


Mar 17, 2002, 10:16 AM
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    I only have 21 cams, one of which is a WC Forged Friend. I suck.

I say get the flexible, as it's more "flexible" as to it's use. (all pun intended. )

And also, I have some WC Technical Friends, and I think they rule. Very rugged cams.



BTW... BG, it's just my opinion, but I think it's best to learn passive pro first, as this will get you eyes keen to finding placements. Not to good to rely on technology alone from the start. Passive pro is usually the piece of choice placed by experienced Trad climbers. Sew it up with stoppers, and save the cams for a strenuous or quick placement.



rrrADAM

[ This Message was edited by: rrradam on 2002-03-17 10:21 ]


Partner rrrADAM


Mar 17, 2002, 10:26 AM
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BTW... PTPP, I only counted 42. (Big-Bros are not cams. )


crackwhore


Mar 17, 2002, 12:03 PM
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lets just say i am friend of the friend.

both "foraged" and "forged"

you can never have too many friends.

i dont have any of the new "forged" friends but i do have ALL of you whipped in rigid friends alone.

if any body wants to sell any old friends just let me know...

nobody seems to like me so i have to buy friends. ha ha


passthepitonspete


Mar 17, 2002, 1:43 PM
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You're right, Adam!

There are only 42 cams on my Ultimate Big Wall Checklist.

However, I just sold some of my climbing photos, which appear here on RC.com, to a climbing shop to use in their promotional material.

Naturally, I asked for a couple Hybrid Aliens!

Nice deal, eh?

I am, after all, a salesman!

Cheers,

"Pass the Paycheque" Pete

P.S. I still have plenty of improvement until I reach YOUR cam-scamming skills!


beyond_gravity


Mar 17, 2002, 4:12 PM
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There's a gear swap coming up in April, are cams the kinnda thing you wanna buy second hand??

Rock On,
Jeremy


radistrad


Mar 17, 2002, 4:19 PM
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No,
I would not even buy my partners cams, and I am responsible for half of the damage and know their history.
Try to find some blemished cams or something like that.
Dont buy second hand climbing gear, is you life worth saving a few $$$. I have to climb again next week, I want to live to do it, no second hand gear here...


jt512


Mar 17, 2002, 7:52 PM
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Quote:I don't mean to be a total looser, but since I noticed you spelled forged foraged twice, I think actually think they're called "foraged" friends.

Um, if you don't want to be a total loser, you probably should check your spelling before you correct someone else's.



-Jay


Partner rrrADAM


Mar 18, 2002, 2:36 AM
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I agree about 2nd hand gear. If you don't know the history, don't trust your life to it.

I am skilled at inspecting mechanical components, due to my job, and I still haven't used the cam I cleaned off the crux of Ball Bearing in J-Tree. Even biners I clean are used to rack gear, not life supporting.

You only get 1 life.



rrrADAM


krustyklimber


Mar 18, 2002, 3:22 AM
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Geez, I only own 9 cams , and Royal didn't own any when he did the nose solo!
Get the rest of your rack filled in, then go for the big ticket stuff, just do like I do, and get very good at borrowing.

Jeff

P.S. Adam send me that cam you found I'll test it!
P.P.S. Jeremy try http://m-w.com/ it'll help with your spelling. (girls don't like guys who LOOK stupid because they can't spell, that's what spelling has to do with girls, duh)



[ This Message was edited by: krustyklimber on 2002-03-18 03:31 ]


lemon_boy


Mar 18, 2002, 7:10 AM
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i definitely agree with the people that recommend getting a bomber passive rack set up first. especailly stoppers. why? if you accidently drop a piece from 6 pitches up - it's cheap. if your buddy can't remove that piece that you welded in and weather is on the way -it's cheap. if you have to bail off a route and leave gear - it's cheap.

well, i shouldn't necessarily say cheap, but rather cheapER.

when you decide to take the plunge and begin building a camming arsenal, i recommend checking out REI-outlet.com. they have flexible clog cams for really cheap. these are pretty much WC technical friends with a different name. the sizes are the same, even the little spec sheet that comes with them is the same. i have some and they work great.

good luck!!!


beyond_gravity


Mar 18, 2002, 6:34 PM
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hmmmmphh...I dont get it, good spellings not gonna git me some chick, I mean, why do u spell infornt of chicks?? well, of course here, but I mean, in the "Real World" My ex-girlfriend marked all my SS vocab tests, with 75% of the works spelled wrong, and yet she went of with me for a matter of weeks. Thus, spelling must no affect the way beyond_gravity steals, eerrrrr, Gets a girlfriend.

Rock On,
Jeremy


jetace


Mar 20, 2002, 5:26 PM
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don't do it!!! I have four forged friends, and those stupid stems bug me to death, I don't like having to place them in vertical cracks all the time, I'd definately spend the extra money for the flex. I'm wishin I had some dmm's right about now


beyond_gravity


Mar 21, 2002, 6:38 PM
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Hhhmmmphh...I only have $200 to blow on cames, that mean 4 dmm cams, or 5 friends...what do i doo Money is a big ass issue with me dudes! I dont know if i want a trad rack, or crashpad, or new shoes, or new skateboard, or new ice tools. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! Who wants to donate to the beyond_gravity fund?


crackwhore


Mar 21, 2002, 8:48 PM
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i usually pay 10 - 20 bones for used cams and i got a s#*t load of 'em.

$200.00 USD sounds like a pretty decent rack in my book.


mpepe


Mar 21, 2002, 9:46 PM
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I have six forged friends. They are the last ones I put on my rack but only because they don't seem to have the same range as some of the other brands. This of course could be totaly imagined on my part, I've never "measured" them. They are the best cam for a blind placement at the end of your reach where you just shove the sucker in though. My opinion, get the flexy ones


beyond_gravity


Mar 23, 2002, 9:24 AM
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$200 canadain...so thats like what? $12 US?


beyond_gravity


Mar 24, 2002, 9:40 AM
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I'm going to fill out my rack with Omega Pacific Scallop nuts because they are the cheapist...I take it nuts are just nuts...right?


gripped


Mar 26, 2002, 12:26 PM
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Quote:if you are goin to buy the forged cam and some cord for it for horizontil placements youl be getting close to the price of the flexible ones, i say go the flexi and cover more cracks. especially if they will be your first cams, youll want them to do a broard range of placements.

1) You can buy forged Friends for about $29.00 each for the "popular sizes. Add a foot of 9/16" webbing for a short tie-off and you have increased the price to $29.22. That looks a lot cheaper than the typical $49.00 that a flexi Friend goes for.

2) Range -- Friends don't have the same range per unit that Camalots do. However, the Camalots weigh more. That means you can get the same range for the same weight by going with the Friends. As an added bonus, you have an extra cam or two for the same range with the Friends and that can come in handy on a long pitch. The forged Friends have exactly the same range as the flexi Friends and the forged Friends weigh LESS than the flexi Friends. That means you can have a great range to weight ratio without spending a lot of coin if you go with forged friends.

3) I don't ascribe to the "learn passive first" school of thought. I think that line of reasoning came from the fact that beginner racks often consist only of passive pro. You should be able to effectively place every piece of gear on your rack, active or passive. Buy cams if you have the money.

Hasta banana.

[ This Message was edited by: gripped on 2002-03-26 12:28 ]


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