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Daisy/Aider setup
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crackboy


Jan 14, 2004, 2:35 PM
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Daisy/Aider setup
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Being that i am just starting out I want to be able to try a whole bunch of different setups to see what works best for me. my question is what kind of biner set up to you all use. so far the system that seems appealing to me is Karl's where each aider has its own biner and the two are clipped onto the daisy biner.

How do you all do it?

what do you think about wire gates for that?

cheers


strider


Jan 14, 2004, 3:34 PM
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Re: Daisy/Aider setup [In reply to]
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I have done one wall and about a dozen shorter aid pitches and I noticed a problem with my set-up, but maybe it was only me. When I did WFLT, I used two adjustable daisy's and two Met. adjustable aiders. Each daisy and aider had a wiregate attached to it, one each, for a total of four biners. I then had then the aider biner clipped to the daisy biner. Here is where I found the problem. The aider biner would rub on the dasiy clip-in loop and by the end of the wall I could see the damage was pretty bad. About a 1/4" of material had been rubbed and frayed away. So what do you guys think? The problem here is that I need to be able to disconnect my aider's from my daisy's since I am using adjustable aiders and they can get a little tangled sometimes. So I can't put the aider's and daisy's on the same biner. The only method that seemed to alleviate the problem was to attach the daisy biner to the aid biner, but again, this caused wear on the aider clip-in loop after a while. Anybody else notice this kind of wear when you clip you aiders and daisy's together?

For your set-up, you will have two biners, one for each aid tree, clipped to the daisy biner. (you are using 4 aid trees, right? two aid trees for each daisy) Since you should clip the aider biners on opposite sides of the daisy's clip-in loop I don't think you will have my problem since the biners should oppose each other and prevent the aid biners from rubbing on the daisy loop. Wire gates are great to use since they are light, but consider that for safety, you should have a locking biner at the end of each daisy. This way, when you are at the belay you can lock them to prevent them from becoming un-clipped. It's your choice and your funeral if you fuck up.

Good Luck

-n

Adj. Aider Note: I seem to be one of the only guys here that uses adj. aiders but I have to say that I love them. I am able to get higher on a piece and it is easier to do so in adjustable aiders. Remember that adj. aiders are attached to your feet, so you never have to find a step and the aider will follow you, so you can spread your legs and such without worry. To each his own. I have yet to get on scary aid and I may switch to wall ladders if I feel the need. But so far for A1/A2 the adj. aiders have been great!


dsafanda


Jan 14, 2004, 3:53 PM
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Re: Daisy/Aider setup [In reply to]
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For what it's worth I pefer Petzl keylock ovals. Each daisy and aider(I goes in to a single large oval biner. The keylock gate design prevents the biner from catching on bolts, wires, whatever.


jliebgott


Jan 14, 2004, 4:28 PM
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Registered: May 21, 2003
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Re: Daisy/Aider setup [In reply to]
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In reply to:
Adj. Aider Note: I seem to be one of the only guys here that uses adj. aiders but I have to say that I love them. I am able to get higher on a piece and it is easier to do so in adjustable aiders. Remember that adj. aiders are attached to your feet, so you never have to find a step and the aider will follow you, so you can spread your legs and such without worry. To each his own. I have yet to get on scary aid and I may switch to wall ladders if I feel the need. But so far for A1/A2 the adj. aiders have been great!

You definitely can't get as high in adjustables as with ladders. To be in a top step position, you'd have to be able to pull up all the slack until your feet are directly under the piece. guess where your knees are?

Imagine this very possible situation. You get as high as you can in your adjustables by doing a massive squat, reach up and slot a nice piece of gear. You are holding onto that piece and it fails. Guess where your feet are going to stay? on your last piece.

Guess where your upper body is going to go? below your last piece.

Finally, climbing out of easy aiders is next to impossible without loosening then with your hands. I have pulled many moves where i needed to keep my hands on the rock and pull the feet out of the ladders.


nickb


Jan 14, 2004, 5:41 PM
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Re: Daisy/Aider setup [In reply to]
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I put a couple of small loops of 9/16 webbing onto a key lock oval which also holds an adjustable daisy. The loops are as small as I can make them bounce tightened when wet then the ends taped down. I clip my aiders into the small loops. This keeps the aider biners from abrading the daisy and I only lose about two inches of height. If I need to go higher I go up to the next step. I like using one aider on each daisy except when the aid is hard or awkward. Then I use three aiders. I don't do much, OK, any hard aid so I don't do the two aiders on each daisy much, all the webbing flailing around confuses my old brain. This is what I do, your mileage may vary.


flamer


Jan 14, 2004, 6:00 PM
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Re: Daisy/Aider setup [In reply to]
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This keeps the aider biners from abrading the daisy and I only lose about two inches of height. If I need to go higher I go up to the next step.

What do you do when you reach your topstep and still need 2 more inch's?

I'm not going to go into detail's about this, but I will say 2 things.
#1 you are starting off right by wanting to try different methods then figuring out what works for you.

#2 In aid climbing(and climbing in general!) simpler is usually better.

HAVE FUN!!
josh


strider


Jan 14, 2004, 10:07 PM
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Re: Daisy/Aider setup [In reply to]
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You definitely can't get as high in adjustables as with ladders. To be in a top step position, you'd have to be able to pull up all the slack until your feet are directly under the piece. guess where your knees are?

Imagine this very possible situation. You get as high as you can in your adjustables by doing a massive squat, reach up and slot a nice piece of gear. You are holding onto that piece and it fails. Guess where your feet are going to stay? on your last piece.

Guess where your upper body is going to go? below your last piece....

I still maintain that you can get higher than you can in Wall Ladders. When I was in Yos we measured my aider against wall ladders and the top step in the adj. aiders was higher. But you are absolutely right about the massive squat position. To alleviate this you can adj. each aider halfway, then half again and then to top step. This makes it easier to do, but if you don't like or are not flexable enough to bend then you will not like adj. aiders in the top step position. This is why I said for scary aid I might change over to ladders. I just have to try and see.

Also, you can make the buckle really loose and you should not have a problem taking your feet out. At least I have not had any problem. I have also thought long and hard about your sitiuation of feet attached to one piece and your body falling toward another. Keeping the buckles loose and keeping your wits about you should mitigate the problem however it does not solve it.

Like I said, I am probably one of the only ones who uses adj. aiders. To each his own...

-n


Partner holdplease2


Jan 15, 2004, 12:19 AM
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Re: Daisy/Aider setup [In reply to]
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I must admit that when I first started aiding and tried the adjustable daisies and aiders I am glad there was no audiance. I was traversing. And my god, I got so stuck so often on that pitch. Really really bad scene.

Like to do it with the regular daisy and fifi now. When I get stuck it is less obvious and there is more crap to futz with while I figure my S*** out.

Good luck optomizing your system!

-Kate.


nickb


Jan 15, 2004, 1:58 PM
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[quote="flamer"]
In reply to:
This keeps the aider biners from abrading the daisy and I only lose about two inches of height. If I need to go higher I go up to the next step.

What do you do when you reach your topstep and still need 2 more inch's?


Hero loop.


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