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An Interesting aid problem
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marcel


Jan 23, 2004, 7:39 AM
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An Interesting aid problem
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Without going into why, my job requires me to get to the middle of the underside of a steel I beam that support the roof over an olympic size swimming pool. It would be hard to set up a ladder or scaffolding, so I'm thinking of aid climbing the beam. Any ideas? I thought I might use C clamps, clamped to the beam and etiers to move along the underside of the beam.


jerrygarcia


Jan 23, 2004, 7:52 AM
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having done many data cabling jobs in large warehouses with steel I beams, let me ask you this. Isnt there space between the top of the I beam and the ceiling? If so, the safest thing would be to tie loops of webbing around the whole I beam as you go along. I wouldnt want to find out the holding strength of a c-clamp thats being used in that situation.


diesel___smoke


Jan 23, 2004, 7:55 AM
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Wrap slings around the beam and aid on those would be my best guess because you could use them for pro.


marcel


Jan 23, 2004, 7:55 AM
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No there is no room above the beam. Cast concrete panels sit right on top of the beam.


jerrygarcia


Jan 23, 2004, 8:05 AM
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No there is no room above the beam. Cast concrete panels sit right on top of the beam.

Have you been right up to the beem or are you stating this from a view on the ground? Most beams in this type of fabrication have some space in areas like joints of the top plates. Even if you had to thread it with a long needle, there should be areas you can get webbing under the concrete and above the beam. If not, you could take adjustable "tow straps" that have hooks. Put a hook one hook on the bottom corners of the I beam and tighten it up. You would need a lot of these to safely get yourself out there though. How deep is the pool, could you risk free climbing it knowing you would just fall in the pool?


epic_ed


Jan 23, 2004, 8:05 AM
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Weird. I can't picture a structure where the concrete slabbing sits directly on top of the beams, but I suppose you've given it a close look. Is the pool located in a multi-story building where there is another floor directly above the pool?

I suppose if the concrete ceiling sits flush with the beam, it might be possible to bust out the pin rack and try to slam some knife blades or LAs between the beam and the roof. Tie 'em off short. 8)

Or, if you're really badassed, you could just hook the lip of the beam all the way out to where you need to work. Definitely A5. :mrgreen:

Ed


marcel


Jan 23, 2004, 8:11 AM
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Yea, the beam is actualy cast into the concrete. So there is no upper I part on the beam. I'm thinking now of using beam clamps that are used to mount pipe to the underside of beams. I found some on line a few minutes ago that are rated 350 pounds. I can also thread eye bolts into the beam clamp. And, if I do fall its in the deep end of the pool and only a 20 foot fall. Heck it should be fun to get paid to climb over the pools:D


diesel___smoke


Jan 23, 2004, 8:14 AM
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You could figure out the problem like sport climber and place a bolt every few feet.

Or try something a little more ethically pure...

You could try something elaborate like takeing carabiners and placing one on each side of the beam (like you would clip a rope, the gate would be open though), and tie them together at the base (not too tight but just enough they wont fall off) and then equalize them and aiding both of them in a V pattern. Sort of like opposing hooks, each holding the other in place. It might be worth trying... Or you could just try it with hooks and duct tape them in place but I think they'd shift easier. C-clamps would probably be a lot easier.

Figure it out...


tobyhaughey


Jan 23, 2004, 8:19 AM
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You could get two of those industrial size suction pads they use for moving huge panes of glass and leap frog them along the ceiling or the underside of the I beam.....


smellyhippie


Jan 23, 2004, 8:20 AM
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Cool Job! Deep water soloing at its finest...


Partner j_ung


Jan 23, 2004, 8:28 AM
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I don't understand why the beam won't go free. :lol:


reno


Jan 23, 2004, 8:43 AM
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I don't understand why the beam won't go free. :lol:

Indeed... after all, the balcony went free:

http://www.geocities.com/tradkelly2/08Ouray.jpg

Heck, you could grab a set of leashless tools, work your way along the I-beam, and hang from a Leper hook when you get where you need to work.

Aid climbers... *sigh*


marcel


Jan 23, 2004, 8:43 AM
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You could get two of those industrial size suction pads they use for moving huge panes of glass and leap frog them along the ceiling or the underside of the I beam.....

I like this idea! :lol: :wink:


marcel


Jan 23, 2004, 8:45 AM
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I don't understand why the beam won't go free. :lol:

Indeed... after all, the balcony went free:

http://www.geocities.com/tradkelly2/08Ouray.jpg

Heck, you could grab a set of leashless tools, work your way along the I-beam, and hang from a Leper hook when you get where you need to work.

Aid climbers... *sigh*

Dry tooling, another great idea! :lol:

I knew I could count on R.C. members to come up with some cool ideas!


Partner euroford


Jan 23, 2004, 8:45 AM
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howdy, i'm your local ropped access guy turned aid/trad climber :)

what you need is called a "beam trolley" and its made by Miller. you simply attach this device to the beam, clip into it with a heavy locker on your doughnut and then slide along the beam like a tyrolean (sp?) traverse. easy as pie. it will cost you about $400.00 with shipping and you can find numerous places on the internet that carry it. unfortunatly grainger doesn't have it listed, but maybe you could give them a call anyways. nothing else would be nearly as easy/safe/quick. this device will comply with osha guildines if used in conjunction with a full body harness. i use a petzl navaho most of the time, other times i use a yates big wall witha regular Miller harness overtop. if you do this, you would have to have a lanyard running from the Miller harness tie in to the trolley.

have you seen the movie "The Italian Job"?? they were useing these to rig explosives underground.

if your boss doens't want to buy a $400.00 rig tell him to go to hell. its your arse.


imnotclever


Jan 23, 2004, 9:01 AM
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howdy, i'm your local ropped access guy turned aid/trad climber :)

what you need is called a "beam trolley" and its made by Miller. you simply attach this device to the beam, clip into it with a heavy locker on your doughnut and then slide along the beam like a tyrolean (sp?) traverse. easy as pie. it will cost you about $400.00 with shipping and you can find numerous places on the internet that carry it. unfortunatly grainger doesn't have it listed, but maybe you could give them a call anyways. nothing else would be nearly as easy/safe/quick. this device will comply with osha guildines if used in conjunction with a full body harness. i use a petzl navaho most of the time, other times i use a yates big wall witha regular Miller harness overtop. if you do this, you would have to have a lanyard running from the Miller harness tie in to the trolley.

have you seen the movie "The Italian Job"?? they were useing these to rig explosives underground.

if your boss doens't want to buy a $400.00 rig tell him to go to hell. its your arse.

Exactly. Imagine if OSHA found out and you weren't hooked in. Also, after you are in the trolley you can leave the lanyard long if you want to play around.

What have you got to do to the beam?


scubasnyder


Jan 23, 2004, 9:04 AM
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that pictures great i have some funny ones like that


yosemite


Jan 23, 2004, 9:16 AM
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How wide is the I-beam? Is it level or does it go up at a relatively steep angle?

What about this? Fish hooks are massive and strong. Take two of them, put them face to face, and tie them together with a single sling with a clip in loop. Instant jaws. Unweighted, you could open the jaws, and hook each side of the beam. When you clip in, your weight will (should, maybe, or possibly) keep them in place. If the I-beam is wide enough, you may be able to use this set up as pro if you tie the sling short enough. If the beam is really wide, you could also tie separate slings on each hook and get bomber pro.

http://www.fishproducts.com/...g/productlinefs.html

Good luck.

gm


Partner euroford


Jan 23, 2004, 9:18 AM
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Exactly. Imagine if OSHA found out and you weren't hooked in. Also, after you are in the trolley you can leave the lanyard long if you want to play around.

What have you got to do to the beam?

yeah, those OSHA guys don't jack around. MINIMUM $250.00 fine for a first violation of any "work at height" safety. this is defined as any work taking place 22' or higher off the ground or within 4' of an unprotected drop off. i would assume this qualifies. the plus side is that OSHA doesn't care what you use for access, the only rule is that you wear an OSHA approved fall arrest harness connected to an OSHA approved anchorage system by a shock absorbing lanyard. this means you can aid climb, rappel by whatever method you want, dry tool, free climb, whatever as long as you are clipped to an anchor, useing a rope grab on a safety line or using a device such as this beam trolly.

i wouldn't bother with any other methods, i would just use the trolley, it will take care of both your access and your safety requirements and it would get the job done quickly and easily. believe me, i'm the king of trying to make my hobbie (climbing) into my job (facade consultant), but sometimes you have to understand that "climbing" and "industrial ropped access" are two way diffrent things.

unfortunatly this "intresting aid problem" is probobly the most boreing industrial access problem! oh well, it will be fun anyways!


Partner euroford


Jan 23, 2004, 9:31 AM
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oops. i forgot to include links in my first post.

this is the beam trolley, and its actually a good deal. double check the beam size, you may need the retrofit kit.

http://www.safetyconnection.com/milleranchorageconnectors.htm

here is a basic cheapo miller fall harness. if this is a "one time" deal get this one.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/productdetail.jsp?xi=xi&ItemId=1611764875&ccitem=

this is millers heavy duty harness, i get about 3 years out of one of these, the buckles allow you to adjust them to fit and not loose the adjustment everytime you take it off.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/productdetail.jsp?xi=xi&ItemId=1611760277&ccitem=

shock absorbing lanyard.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/productdetail.jsp?xi=xi&ItemId=1611606099&ccitem=

then use your climbing harness, a sling and a couple HD lockers to attach yourself to the trolley.


timpanogos


Jan 23, 2004, 11:21 AM
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looks like you will need two trollies.

you will weight one, while you push the other to arms length and then move on to it.


opps, never mind, I was looking at the beam anchor at the top of the web page, the trolly is down a bit and appears to be on wheels.

I wonder if the wheels lock - so when you go to work (drill whatever) you are not moving around?


Partner euroford


Jan 23, 2004, 11:38 AM
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they don't, but are fairly stable unless you are pushing off at an odd angle. i guess thats where a c-clap and some daisy chains would come in handy!


climbingagain


Jan 23, 2004, 11:56 AM
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Try this. http://www.fsindustries.com//more_info/close_radius_series_632_plain_ball_bearing_trolley/close_radius_series_632_plain_ball_bearing_trolley.shtml
they are pretty cheap and strong to. They should work like a charm.


Partner euroford


Jan 23, 2004, 2:07 PM
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that looks pretty cool, but the website lists that it is "not to be used for people".


Partner philbox
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Jan 26, 2004, 8:48 PM
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I like the beam trolley. I would also suggest using this in combination with beam clamps as leaver pro. work your way out whilst hanging off the beam trolley and being belayed, leave a beam clamp every ten feet or so.

I`ve actually used a system something like this in the past. works well. The beam clamps I was using were way bomber gizmos. You could have hauled a truck up on one of those things.


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