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hangdoggypound
Jan 29, 2004, 5:47 PM
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I'm curious after reading this thread about the current Rock & Ice issue and seeing the comments about how advertisements ultimately pay for the publication of a given magazine.
You see, I picked up a copy of Arizona Highways last night at the grocery store. Arizona Highways is popular for their photographs which come from a lot of freelancers. And an issue is typically jammed full of large photographs, too. Even the back cover is always a handsome Arizona wilderness photograph, not an advertisement. If anyone else has noticed, there is not a single advertisement in Arizona Highways. The newstand price is $3.99 US. So, this magazine offers tons of professional photos, as well as professional prose, without the advertisements and without a $12 price tag - and for the record I would pay $12 for Az Hwys. Tell me, then, how does this work? Can't consumers demand more from Rock & Ice for the $3-$5 (I don't know what the cover price is) per issue? I'm not sure the arguement about the "ads are a necessary evil" can stick, or is fact.
Anyone care to comment?
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hema
Jan 29, 2004, 6:00 PM
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Well saddly both R&I and Climbingh are both firms which have to make money. And to make money they have this high price-tag (with 8$ tag where I live, as they are imports) for customers and still get alot of money from the adverts (which by the way cover roughly 50% of the pages).
The Britt climbing-mags are a bit better, as they usually are a bit cheaper (can be due to shipping costs), and only have around 30% of ads (and usually grouped at one part of the mag).
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hangdoggypound
Jan 29, 2004, 6:07 PM
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In reply to: Well saddly both R&I and Climbingh are both firms which have to make money.
That's what I would like to discuss.
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wigglestick
Jan 29, 2004, 6:20 PM
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From the Arizona Highways Magazine website
In reply to: Arizona Highways magazine is a division of the Arizona Department of Transportation, State of Arizona. For more than 78 years, we have brought the beauty and splendor of Arizona to the world through our award-winning magazine, scenic coffee-table and travel books, exquisite calendars and other unique products which capture the spirit and beauty of Arizona and the Southwest.
The don't have ads because your tax dollars pay for the publication.
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ponca
Jan 29, 2004, 6:23 PM
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In reply to: Well saddly both R&I and Climbingh are both firms which have to make money.
Why is this sad? I am sure those people that work for the magazines want to get paid. I am sure that those photographers and writers like to get paid. I am equally sure that the companies that advertise in the magazines, want to advertise. Even the people that buy the magazines want to buy it.
The way I see it: everyone is doing what they want.
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tucsonalex
Jan 29, 2004, 6:29 PM
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From rockandice.com:
In reply to: Total Readership.................83,067
From arizonahighways.com:
In reply to: CIRCULATION: The magazine sells about 350,000 copies monthly, mostly to subscribers outside Arizona (about 25 percent are in Arizona). The magazine circulates in every state and in about two-thirds of the countries of the world.
More paying readers=more income=less advertising.
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melekzek
Jan 29, 2004, 6:51 PM
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In reply to: More paying readers=more income=less advertising.
but when we talk about r&i and climbing, most of the people here thinks that the equation is inverse
more ads = less paying members
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cryder
Jan 29, 2004, 6:52 PM
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In reply to: From the Arizona Highways Magazine website In reply to: Arizona Highways magazine is a division of the Arizona Department of Transportation, State of Arizona. For more than 78 years, we have brought the beauty and splendor of Arizona to the world through our award-winning magazine, scenic coffee-table and travel books, exquisite calendars and other unique products which capture the spirit and beauty of Arizona and the Southwest. The don't have ads because your tax dollars pay for the publication.
The point still stands though with other pubs that have a low ad to content ratio. It has a lot to do with content, and even more to do with money. The private pubs and their owners are business that want to make money - however they often recruit and employee people who love the category of business they're in, minus the business aspect. The amount of independence a pub has from coporate parents directly affects its ability to do and say what it wants.
Magazines and other paid media walk a fine line between what they can sell and what we will tolerate as consumers. If the content of the pub is based on photography or other more artisticly inclined mediums, then the demographic buying the pub will likely be more sensitive to too many ad placements and perhaps stop buying. On the other end of the spectrum, say like a teen pub, the readers not only tolerate a huge ad to content ratio, they prefer it because to them, its all content.
I would assume that our typical climbing pup falls somewhere in the middle. It drives pubs nuts to see "their" ad dollars being spent elseware - so they incentivise their product to attract more spending. And it works. Most pubs have an internal devision between their sales departments and their editorial - editors typically want integrity and unmolested content, sales managers want sales in the form of PR pieces, double truck spreads, and special inserts. The publisher normally plays referee between the two and tries to keep everyone happy and employeed. Sometimes the reader gets lost in this mix, and the pubs brand suffers justly as a result, earning angry posts on internet forums.
- n -
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cryder
Jan 29, 2004, 6:56 PM
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In reply to: From rockandice.com: In reply to: Total Readership.................83,067 More paying readers=more income=less advertising.
FYI - Readership and circulation are two different cats. The average national pubs "pass along readership rate" is around 2.5% - a number claimed to be higher will earn them an audit from the ABC (Audit Bureau of Circulation).
The only reason any of them post that info is because it helps them preserve their asking price on a cost per point basis with media planners who eat their lunch anyways.
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tucsonalex
Jan 29, 2004, 7:14 PM
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Aha, after reading more closely.
Rocka and Ice's total paid circulation is 33,227 copies. With 2.5 pass along readers per copy. 33,227 x 2.5=83,067 readers.
Bottom line is, Arizona Highways sells about 10 times more copies than Rock and Ice.
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hangdoggypound
Jan 29, 2004, 7:14 PM
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In reply to: From the Arizona Highways Magazine website In reply to: Arizona Highways magazine is a division of the Arizona Department of Transportation, State of Arizona. For more than 78 years, we have brought the beauty and splendor of Arizona to the world through our award-winning magazine, scenic coffee-table and travel books, exquisite calendars and other unique products which capture the spirit and beauty of Arizona and the Southwest. The don't have ads because your tax dollars pay for the publication.
Hmm, yes it appears you've caught me red-faced. I hadn't thought about it. This Webpage confirms that part of the Arizona State Highway Fund is allocated to the magazine. All though, I'm enjoying reading all the responses.
My point still stands, though: Consumers ought to be able to demand more for their dollar - as with the other thread about the current R & I issue.
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hangdoggypound
Jan 29, 2004, 7:17 PM
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In reply to: Bottom line is, Arizona Highways sells about 10 times more copies than Rock and Ice.
So, I suppose that Rock & Ice will continue to have this forum and will continue to ask us, "What can R&I do better?" We'll still have the same response: More pictures, fewer ads, better prose, and we'll even pay more for it." And 'their' response will be, "Sorry. No can do. What else can we do better in our magazine?" Will the cycle just continue. Come on.
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cryder
Jan 29, 2004, 7:18 PM
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In reply to: Bottom line is, Arizona Highways sells about 10 times more copies than Rock and Ice.
Pity too, just when I was about to land a climbing sponsorship, those damn RVer's leveraged all the budget because they're more popular. Those articles about illeagle double yellow passing blow our sorry sport away. :twisted:
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climbsomething
Feb 3, 2004, 12:20 AM
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In reply to: I am sure that those photographers and writers like to get paid. |
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roughster
Apr 19, 2004, 3:58 AM
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roughster moved this thread from RC.com Archives to General.
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