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dragonloong
Jan 28, 2004, 6:38 AM
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Terrible access to White Walls,
Rubbish Bin at White Walls, volleyball and RedRock !!!
Dirty and UnHealthy Environment at Climbing areas...
Yah I Strongly Agree with arrowHead & Block !
Last few week ago, I have friends from State , UTAH...
he was here with another 3 person.
He say why our climbing place so terrible....speciall on the way to White Wall, Volleyball and at Red Rock also..
I think we need to do something and tell TV3 ....the KaramSingh (Nature Reporter).....tell our government to take some action on this matter.
Our Government always support Extreme Sport like Rock Climbing, and this year budget 2004 , Government give about 3 Million just of Extreme Sport.....so why not we ask to have some good and clean + safe rock climbing area at Batu Cave? this can bring good image to Malaysia Tourism itself !.....
We can ask everyone (rockClimber) to put his or her signature ..and then we send to TV3...ask the KaramSingh Waliah.....to help us....
( I have a contact with KaramSingh - no worry)....
so guys what you guys think about this? at least we try something to save our ROck Climbing area in BatuCave...........(we have loss NANYANG WALL)...so i dont wan to loss another wall.....Think about it !??
I volunter to start this .....just need you guys support !
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juanjo
Jan 28, 2004, 6:40 AM
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I support your request may I help with this if I live in Mexico??
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arrowhead
Jan 28, 2004, 7:32 AM
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That's great, man. I support the idea! How do you suggest we get this started off with?
I've got a digicam where we could take photos of all the junk and possibly compile them altogether.
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aje
Jan 28, 2004, 8:54 AM
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count me in for support.
Enough of the "gotong royong", as I dont think it will do much to keep the area clean. Its like today its clean, tomorrow its back to normal again.
Any ideas of changing the attitudes of the squatters?? I mean, how hard is it to tell someone that living next to rotting rubbish is not nice ? Please, dont recommend torching the rubbish dump as it will damage the wall, and the healing process will probably out last our lifespans.
I understand that there was an initiative to move them to some low cost flats nearby...whatever happen to that ?
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blocx
Jan 28, 2004, 8:56 AM
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we have already taken pictures of all rubbish piles near rockclimbing areas in batu caves. we actually have a full archive of embarrassing pictures.
we also submitted pictures to authorities in order to move things.
the story is that most of the squatter areas should be bulldozed away within the next 20 months. there are also plans for preservation, however , everything is still in the stage of discussion.
tv3 might be a good idea, hovewer it needs some more carful planning if you really want to change things. we talk about sustainable changes and not about a one off improvement. the goal must be to make the entire batu caves area a proetected zone that can only be used for eco/toursim and sustainable development. a 50 m safety zone around the base of the mountain needs to be established in order to keep the entire outcrop protected and to prevent further development like the one around nanyang.
it is easy to get tv3 to broadcast the misery, but this wont change anything.
The real change starts with us climbers. very often I find myself collecting rubbish on the way back from Nyamuk. Cigarette butts of climbers , empty 100+ bottles, plastic bags , etc.
Recently there have been kids coming up to the rock to watch the climbers. Those kids always leave a lot of rubbish behind. I always pick up their rubbish and I also confronted them several times, however, my Malay is pretty lousy in order to communicate properly with them. So I have to ask a local climber to talk to the kids. But I am tired o fthis. It is irritating that it always need me to remind a climber to remind somebody else. I wish that the climbers could do this on their own, without needing me to push them to do so.
In this case I ask EVERY climber to collect his/her rubbish BUT ALSO confront other people who leave their rubbish behind, be it climbers or locals or local kids. Don't be ashamed to confront them and to explain why it is so paramount that we keep our resorts clean.
We cannot ask other people to buck up it we cannot jump over our shadow in the first place.
We have to communicate with the kids, later hopefully with their parents. Why should they behave differently if they are used to rubbish, literally growing up on a rubbish pile. Their parents never bothered, wherefrom should these kids know anything about environmental issues?
All what I try to say here is: try to solve the problem at the source. all of us can contribute to this and it does not need political pirouettes or a tv=crew.
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wildduck
Jan 28, 2004, 10:50 AM
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i agree and support with the clean up...
i'm in kl and avaliable on weekends and certain weekdays... anyone going on a clean up operation can include me along ! just pm me !
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dragonloong
Jan 28, 2004, 2:26 PM
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I get what you means Pat !
Thanks!
I have some idea....
we can do some Cleaning Rubbish Campaign ...
give some booklet on about cleaning campaign at Batu Cave.
What they can get from the benefit of cleaning the places and need some education program to them ! specially the kids !
Ask along all the communite over there to help & JOIN on the Campaign.
we can ask some help on NGO society to help us.
From Scout Organization & Malaysia MountainGoal (MMG)...i can deal with that !
Before need to get from NGO Help , we need to tell them what is our problem! why we need help? we need to show to them the PHOTO ! why batucave & rockclimbing can help our eco-tourism in malaysia, and what local people can get from the eco-tourism...
By the way, everyone that help in this program , specially the NGO or Communitie around there itself sure want to have some benefit ....what can they get if getting involve with this Campaign???
All Climber must have the positive action first..then only others people can join and help plus support us !
plus the communitie over there...we gather everyone ! we start with a very very big Campaign on Cleaning The Rubbish !
We tell newspaper that we going to do this ...in the same time, when this thing happen, i think our government sure will come over to help us ! They will shame on us.....because we start first with a very good awareness program at Batu Cave ! this also not will effect BatuCave area, and govr, but also will tell others people know ...how to takecare a places that can be highly potential area for eco-tourism !!!
ermm pat & geng......i think we going to meet at Tebong this weekend ! we can talk about this !....I wish everyone can contribute something to society ! see u there !
thanks alot of your long commen and ideas ! good PAT ! i very shame as a malaysian ...that i have a good Swiss guy like you that willing to help and develop rock climbing at Malaysia ! THANKS ALOT to PAT & BLOCX !!!
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aje
Jan 29, 2004, 12:31 AM
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I think you guys should think hard about the clean up.
I agree with
1. Taking ur crap with you when you leave.
2. Advising others to take their crap with them when they leave
I dont agree with
1. Clean Up days in areas where ppl who live there dont give 2 hoots. Its great for 1 or 2 weeks, but it will be back to normal again. I love our crag, but I certainly don't love being the neighbourhood garbologist.
Some suggestions
1. Possible to place strategically those big bins that can emptied once a week around the area ? Of course, the local govt can pick up the tab considering that they "should" be taking care of the place. Or some sort of financing or work off can be arrived at?
Unfortunately I can't come up with better suggestions at the moment, but I'm sure after a few pints a few dumb ass comments will come pass my lips.
Cheers,
A
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rokshoxbkr19
Jan 29, 2004, 1:02 AM
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WOW, lot's of Malaysian climbers. GOODLUCK
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dragonloong
Jan 29, 2004, 1:24 AM
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I just have a word with TV3 friends (nature Reporter)
they say:
If we get signature/support from Climbers plus local people over there !
they will help us ! they will not going to blame anyone, just want to let others people know on the awareness to keep place clean ! and dont dump rubbish here and there !. After show at TV broadcast, people around they will take some action to start takecare on this matter !
and, beside that, start with the Booklet campaign..first before going to TV broadcast ! i have told them, that we have a cleaning day before at Nyamuk, but seems like now the rubbish getting more and more ! so TV3 told me that, when they stay for there more then 20 years ago, and dont have a proper dump site, sure this kind of thing happen. their mindset very hard to change now ! so to make a drastic change on their mindset, we need to take something fast and effective way !!!
anyway, i told them to HOLD this matter first, let us climbers talk about this and make some decision first then only will let them know what our plan !
** few of them got (TV3 people) read this forum before !
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blocx
Jan 29, 2004, 5:01 AM
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to suggestion 1 of aje: be careful with bins! they have to be monkey proof and you also have to make sure that they are emptied regularly. otherwise you create problems like in damai.
i agree with loong to talk about it first. anyhow we will see each other this weekend, so we might have some time besides bouldering :wink:
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okinawatricam
Jan 29, 2004, 5:10 AM
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Make sure that people realize that climber keep the area clean when you clean it up. This will give you some great leverage when the time comes.
How often do climber come from other places to climb this area. Can you show that it would be economically beneficial to help climber out. If so, your goverment will be more likely to help, or at least the local businesses will help you convince them.
Plublicity: Use the media to get the message out.
How many climber are in Malaysia? Any major organizations that help with issues or climbing related topics?
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aje
Jan 30, 2004, 12:48 AM
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I briefly spoke to Loong last nite, and did mention the hostility media coverage can create. Yes the media will create the awareness, however what is the direct impact and impression that the people living there will have ? Fair enough, it will let them(and everyone else) see the need to clean the place up, but what if they see it as tactic to remove them from their homes? What would they do?
Some times logical results require a more indirect and circular way in order to arrive there.
Hope a beneficial long term solution can be arrived at without losing the crag in any which way or form (for instance sabotage of bolts).
A
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arrowhead
Jan 30, 2004, 2:51 AM
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In reply to: How many climber are in Malaysia? Any major organizations that help with issues or climbing related topics?
Climbing is a relatively "minor" sport in Malaysia. Majority of the general public still think that we're all mad to be dicing with our lives climbing so high up :-) Any major organizations? There's the Malaysian Climbing Association, although I don't see much activities from them with regards to the welfare of the state of climbing in Malaysia. Apart from that... nothing else, really.
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arrowhead
Feb 5, 2004, 4:21 AM
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I think AJE is right: what's with a bunch of weekend visitors kicking up a big fuss about other people's living quarters?! It'll definitely create a negative impression of the climbers among the locals.
I'd been thinking about alternatives to this... what about highlighting the need for proper waste disposal to the local municipality council? I'm sure that the folks staying there would appreciate a cleaner environment too... maybe there really hasn't been a proper waste management system within the area over the years. Hence, being the adaptable creatures that we humans are... they have gradually learned to live in such an environment.
However, if we could make it a point to the municipality council on the need for action... maybe, just maybe, it could make a difference?
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scubasnyder
Feb 5, 2004, 4:36 AM
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wish i could help good luck with it though
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climbingurlie
Feb 5, 2004, 5:43 AM
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Man, it sucks. Living in Vegas, my buddies and I do most of our outdoor climbing at Red Rock. I know people that are building houses in Calico Basin. :evil: Arg... It's not right to develop the beautiful desert landscape. Doesn't Vegas already have everything else, beside more houses?!? It's too late to do anything about it though. There were so many protests about it. Sad truth is, the government just doesn't care. It's all about getting money out of developing. It's not fair... :cry:
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aje
Feb 5, 2004, 8:21 AM
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i believe that these type of problems will arise justabout any where in the world. Unfortunately the utopia where the drive for wealth financially is overidden by the enjoyment of natural beauty is still far from our reaches.
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astur
Feb 5, 2004, 11:09 AM
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I wish i could help. Just let me know if signatures from Spain can help. Good luck and go ahead.
Hugo
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blocx
Feb 8, 2004, 1:18 PM
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its all talks, folks!
today we were at Nyamuk. there were more than 20 climbers at the crag. Obviously nobody bothered about rubbish being deposited along the track.
when we left it was us who had to bring the rubbish down - AGAIN!
we won't change anything if we only talk about it...
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blocx
Feb 8, 2004, 1:54 PM
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coming back to the incident of today; quite a big number of members of the mountain goal team was present. a short visit on their website was teaching me "love nature, admire...."
nice words
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blocx
Feb 8, 2004, 1:55 PM
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its all talks, folks!
today we were at Nyamuk. there were more than 20 climbers at the crag. Obviously nobody bothered about rubbish being deposited along the track.
when we left it was us who had to bring the rubbish down - AGAIN!
we won't change anything if we only talk about it...
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flasher
Feb 8, 2004, 2:20 PM
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This forum was posted on the 27th January and has since received a staggering 20 response’s. If I were an optimist I would say there’s some hope at the end of this long discourse. Sadly however, I am a realist and being a realist I recognize that it is so much easier to “say it” then to “do it”. So I have a question for all of you who have responded to this thread.
“WHAT HAVE YOU DONE”
DRAGONLOONG- you mentioned getting climber to sign a petition to the government or to raise awareness from local media. – HOW MANY SIGNATURES HAVE YOU GOT?
ARROWHEAD- you generously offered to record DV camcorder and to take some pictures to support Dragonloong, HOW MANY PICTURES HAVE YOU TAKEN?
AJE- you offered support and suggested “talking” to the squatters to help change the attitude. HOW MANY SQUATTERS HAVE YOU SPOKEN TO?
WILDDUCK- you too generously offered support. ANY PROGRESS?
DRAGONLOONG- more ideas, “a campaign” “a booklet”, asking various groups for support.
AJE- advised to talk to the locals, and suggested requesting the government to install bigger bins. HOW IS THAT GOING?
The list goes on but I think my point is clear.
This thread will go on long after I have posted my response, but it makes no difference if you are not prepared to make the most basic of efforts. If you use the excuse that it’s not your rubbish in the first place, then I think you’re going to experience a lot of disappointment in life. You’re all missing the most important word in this forum topic “OUR”. It’s “our” rock climbing area, and any rubbish found there whether it belongs to you or someone else, will ultimately damage the reputation of the climbing community let alone spoil the very treasure we build our sport around.
Before climbing I used to surf a lot, I grew up on the beach not in the mountains. I had my local breaks but I would also visit other regions and when I did made it a practise to walk the beach with an empty rubbish bag and pick up any litter I find. It wasn’t ever a question of how it got there, or whose it was, it made ME feel GOOD to leave the place knowing I gave something back.
I carry this same attitude in climbing. Your rock is your treasure, treat with respect, and give something back.
By-in-large I don’t disagree with many of the suggestion posted and IM sure if followed through may just yield some result. But they all have one major flaw, they all require someone-else’s commitment, and this is the very reason why they probably will not work. Here my suggestion, it’s a really REALLY EASY ONE, and it requires surprisingly little effort on your part.
Next time you see some rubbish bend over PICK IT UP….its really that simple.
:idea:
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dragonloong
Feb 8, 2004, 2:37 PM
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THANKS for the good advise !
u will see "something" at Batucave Climbing Area Soon !!! very soon guys !
hope others will take some action .....fast!!! as fast as possible !!!
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arrowhead
Feb 9, 2004, 5:20 AM
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Nobody's saying that they aren't going to do anything. In fact, nobody's even reached a consensus as to the action needed! I guess everybody's just waiting for a decision to be made.
I'd been picking up the odd litter or two at the crags myself way before this thread started, so please don't flush everybody down the toilet.
I think Flasher's right - it all has to start from ourselves first. It is pointless debating about cleaning up a place when the climbers themselves (some of them, anyway) are littering of the area.
So here's for a start - all climbers bring along a plastic bag the next time you visit the crags and dump your junk in there!
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