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What does A5a, A5c, and A6a mean?
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Partner kimgraves


Feb 7, 2004, 11:54 AM
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What does A5a, A5c, and A6a mean?
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Hi Gang,

I’ve just finished reading Jim Beyer’s account of his solo accent of Project Mayhem (VII 5.10c A5c) on Mt. Thor in Baffin Island in the 2002 AAJ. It’s an extraordinary tale if you can get your hands on a copy. I know what A5 is and A6 (thought I thought A6 was only “theoretical”), but what do the letters after the A designation delineate?

Thanks,

Kim


nagatana


Feb 7, 2004, 11:59 AM
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Guessin' the same thing as a 5.10a, 5.10b, etc. An intermediate step.

Before we know it, we'll start having V7a's.


flamer


Feb 7, 2004, 12:11 PM
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Re: What does A5a, A5c, and A6a mean? [In reply to]
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Naga, is correct it is a sub-rating system that Beyer came up with. To my knowledge he is the only person using it. If you want a subjective view on it you can look in Eric bjorstad's guidebook Desert rock IV. Beyer wrote a full description in there.

In my opinion A6 is not theoretical. If you have an anchor that is total junk, and the whole team could be dropped right off the wall- then ok A6. But it seems silly to me.

josh


alpinestylist


Feb 7, 2004, 12:53 PM
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I used to be a Beyer-phile and climbed a few of his routes. Once you get the flavor of his ratings I found they are much more "accurate" for lack of a better word than standard ratings.

What do you call A1 beaks for 20 feet? What do you call A4 beaks for 20 feet?

Is there a difference? I say yes. Standard A1-A5 no way to differentiate.

What about bomber fish hooks over solid flakes for 50 feet?

Sketchy talon hooks on crumbling oniion skin edges for 50 feet?

I found things really get heads up around A4d, while A4a often seemed A2ish....

six of one half dozen of another.

Sure that is just more confusing, but my 2 cents.

Sorry if I sound stupid.


skiclimb


Feb 7, 2004, 1:34 PM
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It mean "my name is Jim Beyer" ...I can do these routes ...you can't


matd


Feb 9, 2004, 6:32 PM
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here is the skinny..short and sweet.
A5 means that the anchor is bomber but in the case of a lead fall the leader will fall a long ways with a severe potential to get hurt.
A6 is theoretical in that it cannot truely be established until someone dies on it. A rating of A6 means that if the leader falls the anchor will rip and everybody plumits to great beyond.

enjoy


moeman


Feb 9, 2004, 6:55 PM
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In reply to:
here is the skinny..short and sweet.
A5 means that the anchor is bomber but in the case of a lead fall the leader will fall a long ways with a severe potential to get hurt.
A6 is theoretical in that it cannot truely be established until someone dies on it. A rating of A6 means that if the leader falls the anchor will rip and everybody plumits to great beyond.

enjoy

In other words...
fall on A5= Big Whip (HUGE)
fall on A6= Big Splat


lambone


Feb 9, 2004, 8:00 PM
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that's bullshit...

back when A5 mean something, it meant if you fall you die, and likely that your partmner does also. A6 is nothing but an inflated ego.

seriously, modern aid ratings dictate that large falls equal nothing when it comes to grade. now large falls onto a big fat ledge....thats A4.

A5 hardly exists on El Cap to those who climb that hard, it seems to only exist in the minds of few.

not that I know the difference....


okinawatricam


Feb 9, 2004, 8:24 PM
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What a great idea for rating Aid routes. SOunds similar to the brits rating system. Who knows, mayb this will become more comon.


Partner tim


Feb 9, 2004, 8:53 PM
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it is a Beyer-specific thing at the moment...

refer to The Fish's guide to new-wave aid ratings for a fairly obvious grounding. Then ask yourself, is A5a any more sensible than 5.9d, 5.11a, etc? As opposed to 5.11+, 5.10-, etc. Bridwell himself said that the letter grades were silly, in retrospect.

For a really enlightening alternative, take a look at the Casual Rating System. Bridwell came up with that one, too, but it is one of those "the way I wish I'd done it the first time" kinda things. Hell, the guy did the first alpine style ascent of Cerro Torre, he knows what really matters eh.

(edit: pointed the link at Russ' email cause it's more fun)


skiclimb


Feb 9, 2004, 9:23 PM
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How bout this rating system....

Pacements easy and bomber who cares what happens if you fall since you won't... ES (Easy Safe)

Placement tricky but no serious fall potential... TS (Tricky Safe)

Placements May be marginal and you probably get hurt or die if they blow... X (extreme)

description like...heads,, hooks, beaks...whatever

One could perhaps add + or - for emphasis for very tricky placement or slight risk whatever... Example T+X- heads/beaks

These work equally well for clean or hammered placements...prefix A or C...choice of A or C may change ES to X however.

No other ratings are required for aid..mentally this is the way i look at it when aiding...

SO Salathe would be 5.10 (kiss my ass 5.9) C T- S

Shield 5.7 A T X-

Half Dome Reg NW Face 5.9 C E+ S


Partner coylec


Feb 10, 2004, 5:08 AM
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While that is quite useful, it seems to break tradition with all other rating systems, in that is quite useful.

the casual rating system is funnier, too.


yosrat


Feb 12, 2004, 10:46 AM
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Your rating system is really confusing. Bridwell already invented the CRS and it is great. It is the best way to describe pitches. The only mandatory free on the salathe wall is 5.9, sorry to bust your bubble. I havent done any really hard Beyer routes, but it seems to me that the more recent the route the harder it is going to be. Beyer told me that his older routes were over graded compared to his new creations. the guys a wackjob, who wants the 2nd of martyrs brigade, i sure as hell dont. Oh yeah, the definiton of A5 is you must DIE if you blow the pitch, none of this getting injured BS. The pitch must be completely natural and entirely bodywieght. You should start getting hurt around NWA3+. Thats at least the way i understand it.


skiclimb


Feb 12, 2004, 11:42 AM
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5.9 oldschool my friend and i'm sure that wide stuff is easy if you are used to it...but anywhere else that shit is 5 10 my friend...been there done that

Confusing?? ie the line is tricky placemnets but safe or easy placemnts and safe or really tricky and dangerous...how simple is that...do you think about it any other way yourself?

in my book getting seriously injured is no more an option than gettin dead...both are unnacceptable to me...same rule applies "don't fall" and don't do it if you think you might fall otherwise your stupid.


sticky_fingers


Feb 12, 2004, 11:46 AM
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A1A is "beach front avenue" :P


alpinestylist


Feb 12, 2004, 12:07 PM
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I wasn't endorsing Beyer's system. Just trying to explain it. I don't think he needs to explain anything to anyone. He is kind of a wack job. He rates things how he rates them.

I was just trying to explain how within his routes they are applied.

I don't try to say how hard things are anymore. If I respect someone enough to give my real thoughts I usually just describe the climbing "its like 30 feet of decent blades to like 5 beaks" or "30 feet of good hooking with a few sketchy ones in the middle"

Instead of saying A4 or A1+.

Modern aid ratings (IMHO) just let you know how big a fall you take if it all goes bad. I have lead REALLY Hard a2+ and A3, like strings of jive, you just won't fall a hundred feet. More like 60, but with a high chance of blowing it. Where as certain pitches on say Sea of Dreams, in the state I encountered them, seemed much more solid (IE less chance of blowing it) but are given a much harder grade. "Modern A1" seems to encompass a single jank placement.

Just thoughts.


bishopclimber


Feb 12, 2004, 12:16 PM
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does A5 really exist?


skiclimb


Feb 12, 2004, 3:51 PM
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Well said Alpine :robert:


copperhead


Feb 13, 2004, 8:36 PM
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Aid ratings are a joke and are subjective. No, A5 doesn’t exist because the rating system is a closed system. NR (no rating) is my favorite.


karlbaba


Feb 16, 2004, 12:51 PM
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In reply to:
Aid ratings are a joke and are subjective. No, A5 doesn’t exist because the rating system is a closed system. NR (no rating) is my favorite.

How does the rating system being closed mean that A5 doesn't exist?

Just curious

Peace

karl


hawgdrver


Feb 16, 2004, 1:49 PM
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bigwalling


Feb 17, 2004, 6:12 PM
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If you fall you're gonna die! Or at least that's what you should hope for.

I think he has an A5d in N.M. on shiprock or whatever the fuck it's called. Slackers Toil is A5b, which includes the origanal A5 pitch on Surgeon General. The A6 thing is kinda messed, if you gonna rip the belay just add an X modifier or something. Brent seems to be the only one who knows what he's talking about, since he's actully done beyer shit. Read his story about that new route in the Black to get an idea of beyer A4+.


matd


Feb 17, 2004, 6:49 PM
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I completely agree with you.
What one must also remember is that the map is not the territory. By this I mean that one can be given all of the most accurate and precise information on paper, in ratings, or whatever, but all of that is not the real thing.
I personally prefer to find things out on my own. All that is truely needed is a sense of adventure, a level head (ie. common sense), a bit of skill, and alot of tricks and you can get yourself through almost anything. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. There is no shame in retreat.
Where does the adventure lie if every move and placement has been spelled out for you? If you can climb A3 then don't worry about A2. You will get through it...eventually.


lambone


Feb 17, 2004, 8:28 PM
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duh,

A5 is the hip new clothing brand by North Face. I think it is geared towads boulderers.

A5 is dead.


Partner coldclimb


Feb 17, 2004, 9:54 PM
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Remember Pete's "New Age A4"? Or is referring to Pete taboo now? ;)


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