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moabbeth
Feb 17, 2004, 2:04 AM
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Though the J-Tree rangers had been known to look the other way when people had dogs on a leash within 100 yards of a parking lot, that's not the case anymore.
My friend yesterday had his border collie along with us when a group of us went off into Barker Dam. Went over to Father Figure area, good afternoon, good vibes, good energy...until we were hiking out. Just before the trail ended and the parking lot appeared a ranger came outta nowhere and informed us that dogs can only be where you are able to drive a car, that everything else is now being treated as conservation area. Which is ironic since I watched a mom and kid go plowing through the area off trail on mountainbikes running over plants, etc without the ranger even blinking. but that's another rant. So my friend got a $50 ticket (or rather his dog got the ticket but he gets to pay :wink: ).
But he wasn't alone, an older woman with 2 poodles on a leash came along right behind us. The rangers got her too. And I don't think she even strayed too far from the parking lot itself.
So be warned....no warnings from the rangers about dogs anymore. If it's a dog on a leash, you can only have it in the campgrounds or somewhere you can drive your car (I guess near parking lots or roads). If not, you're looking at a $50 ticket. I'm sure there are plenty of areas in the park that the rangers don't patrol, but if you're in an area they can get to easily, leave Fido in the car. The rangers told us this is something they're going to be cracking down on big time in the months to come.
And PLEASE don't turn this into another "leave your dog at home!!!" thread, those have been done to death :evil: . This is just a warning for all Joshua Tree regulars like myself who were used to the "keep it on a leash within 100 yards of a campground or parking lot" rule...cause that included the base of many climbs. Now, about the only places you'll get away having your dog are rocks like Old Woman since it's parking lot and campground adjacent.
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moeman
Feb 17, 2004, 3:14 AM
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Leave your dog at home.
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telemarkist
Feb 17, 2004, 3:36 AM
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having just spent 9 days down there this really doesn't surprise me, they had started it 2 weeks ago, a dog in the site next door got a ticket, I was given a verbal warning but since the ranger drove by and baxter was on "stay" on a boulder outside the restroom I was using I got off easy. some folks who had a slackline set up were evicted, and best of all they are enforcing the 14 nights between november and april rule, they're taking plate numbers daily and I saw an RV'er get the boot at jumbo and several long term hidden valley residents have moved their cars into town to be able to get around this limit. seems as though the park is evolving into a hostile place for dogs and possibly for climbers or anyone who likes to spend a lot of weekends camping in the park. I think I liked it better as a monument..................
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moabbeth
Feb 17, 2004, 3:49 AM
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In reply to: I think I liked it better as a monument..................
Ditto.
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moco2
Feb 17, 2004, 3:58 AM
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I was just about to chip some holds on "right v crack" sunday, when i saw a ranger ticket a guy for a dog off leash. Then i remembered there was a rule about not defacing rock, so i put away my hammer (i didn't want a ticket).
Don't you just hate rules?
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factortwo
Feb 17, 2004, 4:20 AM
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Yes, leave your dog at home.
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roughster
Feb 17, 2004, 4:26 AM
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It does beg the question: Why is there a ban on them beyond the roads?
(P.S. I know the answer, it is a rhetorical question :twisted: )
FERRETS FOREVA!!!
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styndall
Feb 17, 2004, 4:44 AM
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In reply to: It does beg the question: Why is there a ban on them beyond the roads?
Actually, it raises the question. "Begging the question" is a specific phrase for a logical fallacy and does not mean the same thing as "raises the question."
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moabbeth
Feb 17, 2004, 4:52 AM
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In reply to: I was just about to chip some holds on "right v crack" sunday, when i saw a ranger ticket a guy for a dog off leash. Then i remembered there was a rule about not defacing rock, so i put away my hammer (i didn't want a ticket). Don't you just hate rules?
:lol: :lol: :lol:
But seriously, this dog thing kinda pisses me off cause they're making all the campground pay sites now...so they're gonna be scoring extra $$ from the campers & climbers, now they're giving out enough $50 dog tickets to finance putting a friggin McDonald's Playland Welcome Center at the entrance. Seriously....WHERE is all this extra money really going? Cause they're raking in some serious coin off the new dog regulations. Cause it isn't just climbers, most families, hikers, etc bring out dogs. They're such commonplace in JT.
Yep, it was cheaper and more fun as a Nat'l Monument.
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catclaw
Feb 17, 2004, 4:55 AM
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Yeah, never really came across a dog owner that I liked...so perhaps we should leave dog owners at home....rrrraaaarrr...hiss hiss
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rockvoyager
Feb 17, 2004, 4:57 AM
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In reply to: It does beg the question: Why is there a ban on them beyond the roads? (P.S. I know the answer, it is a rhetorical question :twisted: ) FERRETS FOREVA!!!
A ranger told me it was because unleashed dogs will harass the natural critters and people routinely ignore leash laws when in the backcountry. Judging from what I've seen that's probably true.
In reply to: Some folks who had a slackline set up were evicted, and best of all they are enforcing the 14 nights between november and april rule, they're taking plate numbers daily and I saw an RV'er get the boot at jumbo and several long term hidden valley residents have moved their cars into town to be able to get around this limit. seems as though the park is evolving into a hostile place for dogs and possibly for climbers or anyone who likes to spend a lot of weekends camping in the park. I think I liked it better as a monument..................
Why did they boot out the slackliners??
Brad
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moco2
Feb 17, 2004, 4:59 AM
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maybe the extra money is used to clean up dog crap.
Saw lots of it this weekend.
Think i'd get a ticket if I left strychnine laced burgers 151 feet from the road?
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moabbeth
Feb 17, 2004, 5:16 AM
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In reply to: Think i'd get a ticket if I left strychnine laced burgers 151 feet from the road?
You'd just end up poisoning all the coyotes.
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sc_climber
Feb 17, 2004, 5:20 AM
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hey moco2 - that's a pretty sick thing to say even if you are just TRYING to be funny! Why don't you do us all a favor and sample one of those burgers yourself?
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catclaw
Feb 17, 2004, 5:24 AM
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True...hmmm...I say a direct hit of bear spray...at the dog owner, and if a little hits the dog, then all the better to modify behaviors of both creatures...rrrraaarrrr...hiss...hiss
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moco2
Feb 17, 2004, 5:28 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Think i'd get a ticket if I left strychnine laced burgers 151 feet from the road? You'd just end up poisoning all the coyotes.
beth, don't the dogs kill the tortoises?
sc_climber....I've got two hamburgers, one for each of 'ya.
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roughster
Feb 17, 2004, 5:29 AM
Post #18 of 33
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In reply to: In reply to: It does beg the question: Why is there a ban on them beyond the roads? Actually, it raises the question. "Begging the question" is a specific phrase for a logical fallacy and does not mean the same thing as "raises the question."
"Beg" or "Raise" I didn't really give it all that much thought. I know I used it correctly since I did take a critical thinking class in college. And since I always tell the truth, whichever manner I choose to use the phrase of "Begging the Question" must be correct. There, satisfied? :lol:
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mdude
Feb 17, 2004, 5:58 AM
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Just to let you know. None of the parks get any of the money from tickets passed out. This money goes to the US COURT system through the Central Violations Bureau. Look at the address that you send your money to that is on the ticket.
More than 1,000 times a day, every day, someone gets a ticket for running afoul of the law on federal property—a military base, a national park, a national forest, land supervised by the Bureau of Indian Affairs, or even a U.S. Post Office. http://www.uscourts.gov/ttb/aug03ttb/violations/
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trapdoor
Feb 17, 2004, 6:55 AM
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It's not a conspiracy to take peoples money. It's to punish people who break the rules. And furthermore the people who ignore the rules and live in hidden valley all winter are not the victims. In my eyes they're stealing from the public.
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moco2
Feb 17, 2004, 7:02 AM
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In reply to: Why don't you do us all a favor and sample one of those burgers yourself?
dude, are you crazy? I don't want to get mad cow disease!
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itakealot
Feb 17, 2004, 7:07 AM
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Talking to the Rangers over the years they don't act unless someone complains. The Rangers just get up one day and decide, gee whiz, I think we will ticket dog owners.
This year I have seen a lot of dogs in the Barker Dam area and the ones that are with climbers are pretty mellow and just want to sleep.
Unfortunately there are unresponsible dog owners and those who complain. Just another example of how the one or the few ruin for the many. Well behaved dogs belong at the crags since they add to the character of the area, and J-tree is one of those areas.
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moco2
Feb 17, 2004, 7:11 AM
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In reply to: Well behaved dogs belong at the crags since they add to the character of the area, and J-tree is one of those areas.
BZZZT!
Wrong answer.
No dogs at the crag, unless I can bring my cougar!
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catclaw
Feb 17, 2004, 7:29 AM
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In reply to: Well behaved dogs belong at the crags since they add to the character of the area, and J-tree is one of those areas.
Expound, crack sniffer...praytell, how do dogs add to the character of the area?
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tahquitztwo
Feb 17, 2004, 9:30 PM
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Yes, please do expound on how dogs add to the character of the area.
All I've ever seen from most dogs at climbing areas are noise, dog crap and some of them who are allowed to roam unleashed chasing the local wildlife. To put it plain and simple, domesticated animals don't belong in parks off road or anywhere in wilderness areas.....I don't go to climbing areas and hiking areas to see or hear other people's pets, or their leavings. I prefer bear or moose scat :shock:
To my knowledge JT has always had rules about dogs/probably cats too!
It's just that because of the growing popularity and increasingly larger numbers of visitors and their "pets" that the crackdown is starting. I would suspect that there have been problems as well that we haven't seen or heard about.
You're right, the few often ruin it for the many...however, just because we climb doesn't mean we can ignore the rules any more than the next person. :?
Regarding the slackliners....it may be that they were like a group in the park last time I was down in January....the rangers are not only tracking license plates, they're making note of campsites that seem to be "permanent" and counting the days it's there. They leave a warning note and then it will be gone!
While I don't like the 14 day limit anymore than the next guy....the park shouldn't be some folks live in hostel for weeks at a time. And I'm glad to see that they enforce it with the RVers too! :D
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