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Aid climbing in limestone.
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popol


Feb 29, 2004, 2:34 PM
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Aid climbing in limestone.
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I would like to start aid climbing, but overhere most crags are limestone. Is there any difference in technique and material you need?


esoteric1


Feb 29, 2004, 2:56 PM
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Re: Aid climbing in limestone. [In reply to]
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you have got to be kidding me!
:shock:


slablizard


Feb 29, 2004, 3:01 PM
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Re: Aid climbing in limestone. [In reply to]
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Start sport-climbing instead 8)


theboss


Feb 29, 2004, 3:18 PM
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Re: Aid climbing in limestone. [In reply to]
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Why not aid-climbing in limestone? Give me 5 good reasons for not doing so.

G


slablizard


Feb 29, 2004, 3:30 PM
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Re: Aid climbing in limestone. [In reply to]
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No idea, I can't aid climb.
On the other side Limestone is perfect for sport climbing, if you know how to use your feet :P


In reply to:
Why not aid-climbing in limestone? Give me 5 good reasons for not doing so.

G


ammon


Feb 29, 2004, 4:47 PM
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Re: Aid climbing in limestone. [In reply to]
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It's not impossible but not the best type of rock to "learn how" to aid. I've heard of 2000 foot limestone aid lines, though.

If it were me, I would start aiding from the ground up.... with freeing the route as the ultimate goal.

Pick your lines well and watch those loose holds while hooking. There's usually a lot of fractures in limestone.

***PING***


fishypete


Mar 1, 2004, 1:45 AM
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Re: Aid climbing in limestone. [In reply to]
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I regularly aid on Limestone, and it is possible. However even at its best, it is generally much more fiddly than for example easy granite routes.

Often the cracks are very irregular, cams require lots of fiddling to get in a place where they will hold, and commonly have lobes at both ends of their range when they do.

In any case you have to go with what is handy, and I view it as good training. Limestone or not, you will always face placements which need lots of trickery to get set.

[And there is always the advantage of the heaps of weird stares from the passing sport climbers as you walk past with 30 pounds of aid gear).

Good luck!

Fishy.


mrhardgrit


Mar 1, 2004, 3:28 AM
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Re: Aid climbing in limestone. [In reply to]
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Get some leadheads!


coclimber26


Mar 1, 2004, 6:13 AM
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Re: Aid climbing in limestone. [In reply to]
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There is nothing wrong with learning how to clean aid on limestone..I've done several aid routes in Germany that were worth while..be carefull when hooking because limestone fractures easily. I suggest learning to hook on toprope where there is less danger...I also suggest wearing a helmet and clear glasses to protect yourself from flying rock..


popol


Mar 1, 2004, 11:53 AM
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Re: Aid climbing in limestone. [In reply to]
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Thanks for the advise!

And if you need to have some good reasons to DO aid climbing in limestone:

- I think it's fun (most important reason).
- The nearest granite crags are like 10 hours driving away, so I have to start learning it in limestone.
- You can aid up future free climbing routes, and place the bolts for sports climbing.
- You can reach the one spot for that perfect picture. Also in non-equipped terrain.

P


diesel___smoke


Mar 1, 2004, 12:08 PM
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Re: Aid climbing in limestone. [In reply to]
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In reply to:
And if you need to have some good reasons to DO aid climbing in limestone:
...- You can aid up future free climbing routes, and place the bolts for sports climbing....

I doubt you'll find any 'self-respecting aid climbers' advocating this.


geezergecko


Mar 1, 2004, 12:18 PM
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Re: Aid climbing in limestone. [In reply to]
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In reply to:
In reply to:
And if you need to have some good reasons to DO aid climbing in limestone:
...- You can aid up future free climbing routes, and place the bolts for sports climbing....
I doubt you'll find any 'self-respecting aid climbers' advocating this.
Maybe that is the Euro-ethic? Consider where popol climbs. Such action this side of the pond is definitely bad form.


popol


Mar 1, 2004, 12:21 PM
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Re: Aid climbing in limestone. [In reply to]
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Well, I'm no self-respecting aid climber yet :)

And yes, I know bolting aided lines is not done in the USA. No fear, I'm not coming to bolt El Cap all over :lol:
But in Europe, bolted sport climbing crags are the standard. In fact I was just answering to the European limestone sport climbers that read this thread.
In fact, some of the best hard sport routes in Europe are ancient aid routes, bolted and freed afterwards...


coclimber26


Mar 1, 2004, 3:47 PM
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Re: Aid climbing in limestone. [In reply to]
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The Schaufelsen on the Donautal has a few good lines on it and it shouldn't be too far of a drive for you..I remember a nice 5 pitch route with some aid moves in it.


slablizard


Mar 1, 2004, 3:53 PM
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Re: Aid climbing in limestone. [In reply to]
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Why AID if you can actually CLIMB? I mean...After all it's going on on El Cap...the (former) Heaven of Aid Climbing where all the classic aid routes are now classic...free routes you still want to aid..when you can free climb? I don't understand.
As for bolting....maybe, but rap bolting is a lot faster and practical.


popol


Mar 2, 2004, 10:19 AM
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Re: Aid climbing in limestone. [In reply to]
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It's not because they invented cars that you can't enjoy walking..?


slablizard


Mar 2, 2004, 10:27 AM
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Re: Aid climbing in limestone. [In reply to]
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true :)
But I see walking more as climbing and a car more like aid...


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It's not because they invented cars that you can't enjoy walking..?


stick233


Mar 2, 2004, 11:27 AM
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Re: Aid climbing in limestone. [In reply to]
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my question is this? if you aid a line clean and intend to bolt it for free climbing, why not leave the bolts at home and free-trad climb the thing. i understand when it comes to seams you have to hammer, but if it's clean aid, chances are you would have the chance to place trad gear instead of bolts. they aren't sewing up the now-free routes in the valley with bolts...


needmoregear


Mar 2, 2004, 11:54 AM
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Re: Aid climbing in limestone. [In reply to]
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Look at El Petrero Chico in Mexico, all of those 10-25 pitch bolted sport routes had to be aided initially to set the bolt lines. You wanna talk about a sketchy aid line up lime stone... Hell, climbing the bolted routes is dangerous enough.


popol


Mar 2, 2004, 11:58 AM
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Re: Aid climbing in limestone. [In reply to]
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Trad instead of bolts? In granite: ok.
In limestone, trad climbing is far more tricky, because of more difficult placements. Also, where I climb, there's no trad tradition like in the US (what's in a name): free climbing almost implicates bolts. Only very obvious lines (like cracks/corners) might stand a chance to survive.. only there you might have the more "bomber" placements for the trad lines.

At least, that's what I think.


theboss


Mar 5, 2004, 2:28 AM
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Re: Aid climbing in limestone. [In reply to]
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[history]
In Belgium there is no tradition in clean trad. When I say no, I mean there'se only about 50 lines you can climb clean (out of the 3500 I know). Historical routes were opened with pitons, and due to damage to the rock by consequently removing and re-inserting those, a decision was made to leave the pitons in place. That's why we now are a bolter-country.
[/history]

I know the aid-projects popol is talking about, actually we had a look at them lately. No chance of putting more than 1 or 2 trad pieces in those lines, they must be some places, other places would accept some sketchy crochets or (uh, you might say) need some kind of bolting (rivets...).

Call it unethical if we (or anyone else) ever, ever will try to freeclimb those lines, but we don't mind.


overlord


Mar 5, 2004, 2:36 AM
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Re: Aid climbing in limestone. [In reply to]
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there are some old aid routes in osp and some more in mountains, but limestone is mostly sport and trad.


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