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newonrock
Mar 9, 2004, 4:08 AM
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:?:
Could someone please explain to me (or outline) the process of rappelling off a "multi pitch" route while hanging on the rap rope?
I want to understand how to bail off something (one pitch down to the next) where there may not be ledges to stand on (ie, I may have to build rap anchors while hanging from my rappel rope). It may be to complex for the forum but a general outline of the essential steps might help.
Thanks much - if you know of a book with this info maybe I could get the title, author.
Dean
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shakylegs
Mar 9, 2004, 5:19 PM
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Don't expect too many replies. What you're asking is an advanced procedure involving backup knots, hands-free technique, leaving gear behind, etc.
This may sound over-repeated, but I suggest you hire a guide for a day of multipitch training. There's also info in "Advanced Rock Climbing" (I think) and "Rescue Techniques" (correct name?), both co-authored by John Long.
Other than that, all I would suggest is reducing the length of the rappels to ensure that you can set up raps at ledges.
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cjstudent
Mar 9, 2004, 6:01 PM
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Does your name "newonrock" mean you are a new rock climber?
If it does, you don't need to try this. I know thats not the answer that you wanted to hear. But my best suggestion is find an experienced partner if you are a new rock climber and learn the ropes from him/her.
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newonrock
Mar 10, 2004, 7:47 AM
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Been climbing for 2 years so yeah I'd say pretty new. I'm "self taught" without a mentor though I learn from as many sources as possible.
I've always learned "retreat" stratigies first, (I don't know why but it seemed more logical to me) and then took my time learning the ascending part - I try to figure "what if I needed to just bail out of this climb right now?"
So now I'm thinking about multi-pitch stuff and just want to know how to bail out without getting hung half way to nowhere on a cliff. I know how to build anchors (per my level of experience) and I am very methodical in my approach. I just wanted to get a general outline of the steps involved from others who may have actually done this like how to get slack into the system and how to get back onto the rope after hanging from slings or daisy chain etc.. No big deal, I'll figure it out myself eventually
:roll: Thanks...Dean
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shakylegs
Mar 10, 2004, 6:43 PM
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Okay, twit, you ask for names of books/authors and other suggestions. You get them, from me and cjstudent, and you come back with a sarcastic (eye-rolling) reply. Great attitude there.
So, what is it that you wanted?
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mustclimb69
Mar 10, 2004, 7:04 PM
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Wow I wouldnt touch this with an equilized trad anchor, consisting of a sliding x tied off through some bail biners. from which I would kiss my gear good bye as I pull the rope...
Oh yeah buy a book!
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j_ung
Mar 10, 2004, 7:08 PM
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I'll just squeek an answer in before this turns ugly.
With a rappel back-up such as an autoblock, you can go hands free in as little time as it takes you to let go of the brake. Then build an anchor. Then attach yourself to it. Then pull your rope(s). Then thread the rope(s) through the new anchor. Then rappel. Then, if you're still not on the ground, do it all again.
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hosh
Mar 10, 2004, 7:18 PM
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Why don't you just use those little metal rings that those vikings left in the rocks when the sea level used to be higher?
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a_guy_named_smith
Mar 10, 2004, 7:39 PM
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i would advise that you booty those viking rings
and then when you get home you can turn them into really nice piercings
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newonrock
Mar 10, 2004, 10:16 PM
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j_ung thanks for the info!
Wow, "twit" thats good :lol:
I don't think I have an "attitude" I just wanted to get more info to suppliment what I would eventually figure out on my own. Whats the big deal? I know "climbing is dangerous", thats why I ask questions. Just because you know more than me right now, or have more experience than me right now, doesn't mean I have to kiss your ass. Why couldn't you simply leave me with the book suggestions and for"e"go the name calling? I thought asking questions was the point of this forum.
Dean
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freakystyley
Mar 11, 2004, 1:26 AM
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wow - ease up...people here are trying to help you to not hurt yourself. My advice is to research the route efore hand to mimimize the rist of having to retreat. bailing off a trad multipitch will most likely make the next party very happy (to claim all your gear!)
The procedure is very simple in theory without real world "oh sh!t" factors...as j_ung wrote
You are on rap, slide down to where you want to build your anchor, lock off the rap by tying the rope around your leg, use a knot, or some mechanical thingy - make your anchor, tie into it, pull your rope, thread it, and rinse and repeat. oh yeah, and post the route you are working so we can race for your gear!
good luck
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dirtineye
Mar 11, 2004, 5:35 AM
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newonrock,
welcome to h3ll haha.
Yes, you can't swing a dead cat around dumbasarock.com without hitting an attitude.
First thing, learn an auto block, use it. Then, Knots in the end of your rap liine, so you don't rap off the ends. Then, when you find your spot to build yoru anchor while hanging, make a backup knot.
Now you are ready to build your anchor When you have a good one, tether to it twice, escape the rappel device and pull the rope ( tie the end to something first, or you might be there a long time) and make your next rappel setup.
I'd try this a few feet off the ground for a start.
Now, do what some people said and get several books, maybe hire a well trained guide for a day or take a class tha covers this stuff.
You can't really learn this stuff on the internet. Maybe I left something crucial out. Maybe I'm an idiot, you don't know.
Good luck.
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billcoe_
Mar 11, 2004, 5:59 AM
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Wait just a damn min there sport.
The Vikings put the metal rings in there?
Damn, that explains a lot.
Thanks:
Bill
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cjstudent
Mar 11, 2004, 6:07 AM
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I wasn't trying to be smart to you with my reply. I just assumed by your name that you were very new to rock climbing.
i don't know if i can really tell you how to do this, because really it varies from climb to climb, and situation to situation. you need to know how to do a backup knot like others mention, I use a pruisk knot myself. When you come to the anchor place, if you build your own anchor you are going to have to leave those pieces behind. (I assume you know that, but this is a "oh crap" situation anyways right) When you rap down to the location where you are setting up an anchor for the 2nd rap you can let your autoblock knot take your load so you can go hands free but *remember to tie a backup knot to the rope* and not just trust the autoblock. Redudancy is the key. Now you are building your multi-piece anchor, you will want to clip yourself to this anchor remembering redudancy. Pull your ropes then rethread them through the anchor you just set up, and do the rap again. Don't forget your partner, make sure he' raps down and attaches to the anchor also.
rap bolts make this easy. Alot of the climbs i have done have double rap bolts at the belays. That way you rap down, clip into both bolts, your partner does the same, then you pull your rope and repeat the process. If you are using two ropes you need to make sure and remember what rope to pull so that you don't get your ropes stuck.
I am leaving alot of steps out here, this process is something you really need to see done bu someone who is experienced. I am self taught for the most part also but I did manage to seek out an experienced climber for a weekend to see some of this stuff.
And in all seriousness, finding a partner for a weekend or two would be the best way to learn things such as this. Multi pitch trad is teh greatest but you need to remember the risk. (oh and so that nobody comes back at me, saying that you need to remember stuff doesn't mean that i am hinting to you being niave and not knowing about the risk. its just a reminder. my partner and i remind each other of the risk every time we climb, and safety is first)
-Aaron
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climbersoze
Mar 11, 2004, 4:24 PM
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Step one - TIE A BIG KNOT IN THE END OF YOUR ROPE SO YOU DONT RAP OFF.
Thats the only advice I will give. Don't want to get involved in a big safety debate. I like to know all the self rescue/bailing techniques too... so keep looking for the good answer you want adn then practice it (close to the ground)
Sorry... I dont have time right now to get in this... just wanted to make a big point re: step 1.
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skiorclimb
Mar 18, 2004, 11:05 PM
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Dirtineye has it right, I prefer prusiks to autoblock but either way will work. You should definately tie a back up knot, figure8 works well. So the only thing I would add is that it is good to know what climbs if any are adjacent to the climb you are on. Some times a simple traverse or pendulum will put you on a route with rap anchors, or that is so easy you can cruise to the top in no time. Downleading is also an option. Anyone want to touch that one?
Anyway,
goodluck
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timpanogos
Mar 19, 2004, 12:03 AM
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NewOnRock,
This is just part of the game of multipitch trad. Established routes will all have some form of descent which typically will not cost you gear (or only slings/rap rings if you choose).
However, this often assumes you pull to the top - otherwise your are likely going to leave gear. Some routes rap the route. Some raps require two ropes. Some routes have all their pitches under 100', that will not be a problem with a 60 meter rope.
Anyway, you might consider taking two ropes, if the route has pitches that are over 100' - this will provide a cheaper bail.
Just get out and try some easier 5.6 to 5.7 multipitch routes, after a few different areas/types (walk off, route raps, tree anchors, bolt anchors etc) you'll get a feel for what the gear gamble is as you move to harder stuff.
Chad
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