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radistrad
Apr 3, 2002, 3:50 PM
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The figure 8 knot helps absorb some of the impact force of a fall. As the climber is caught on the rope the knot also cinches tight, helping absorb some of the impact force.
All comments are welcome.
More useless spray from radistrad
I should add that after a hard fall, the knot shoud be retied so it can absorb the energy again.
[ This Message was edited by: radistrad on 2002-04-03 08:06 ]
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treyr
Apr 3, 2002, 3:57 PM
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Yeah i agree and it makes it better if u go through your harness loop twice!!!!
trob
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loafdog
Apr 3, 2002, 4:06 PM
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Yeah it helps on falls!
but absorption tightens the knot and it becomes a major pain to untie.
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kelownaclimber
Apr 3, 2002, 4:19 PM
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Don't loop the rope through your harness twice as the rope will abrade your tie-in point much quicker.According to Petzl and other harness manufacturers this could = the ole skull and crossbones!!!!!!
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clymber
Apr 3, 2002, 10:28 PM
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one way to make a figure 8 easier to untie after a fall is to back it up with the mountaineer follow thru.To do that rap the tail of the rope around the rope above the knot and put the tail thru the bottow half of the 8. Ill look for a diagram on it andput the link in
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clymber
Apr 3, 2002, 10:32 PM
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one way to make a figure 8 easier to untie after a fall is to back it up with the mountaineer follow thru.To do that rap the tail of the rope around the rope above the knot and put the tail thru the bottow half of the 8. Ill look for a diagram on it andput the link in
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jt512
Apr 3, 2002, 10:53 PM
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That's not a mountaineer thingy, that's a "sport lockoff" or, more formally, an "extra pass." Don't you uppity mountaineers go stealin' our tricks and taking the credit.
Sheesh, next they're gonna say they invented hangdogging.
-Jay
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beyond_gravity
Apr 3, 2002, 11:09 PM
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how much force an a knot take? Seriously...Firgure 8? I wouldnt know...I use double bowline with the loopy back thing...never locks up...makes me happy....I fall now...
Am I Dr. Jumar
I need a new calulator
"Jug with Jumars" Jeremy
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radistrad
Apr 3, 2002, 11:15 PM
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I've got no info on how much force the knot absorbs. Am I spelling absorb wrong? Is it supposed to be absorp? I went to a California Public School, and they did not teach me how to spell.
[ This Message was edited by: radistrad on 2002-04-03 15:29 ]
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arete2
Apr 3, 2002, 11:22 PM
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Hey jt512, when I first started leading the guy who was teaching me called this the yosemite finish, if it is the same one.
Arete
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hardcoredana
Apr 3, 2002, 11:38 PM
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Yeah, it's a yosemite finish.
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jt512
Apr 4, 2002, 12:41 AM
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Hah! Maybe in the midwest it's a "Yosemite" finish. In Yosemite , where I learned the Yosemite finish, it's something you do to a bowline: The REAL Yosemite finish
-Jay
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radistrad
Apr 4, 2002, 12:56 AM
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Jay, that is the bowline. Jr. Jumar should be happy to see it.
[ This Message was edited by: radistrad on 2002-04-03 17:02 ]
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clymber
Apr 4, 2002, 1:17 AM
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hey im no uppity mountaineer person. I have no desire for high peaks and freezing my butt off and hanging in a tent waiting for astorm to blow over.
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radistrad
Apr 4, 2002, 1:45 AM
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jt512,
Trad climbers did invent hang dogging. Ray Jardine (inventor of cams) was the first person to use the hang dogging technique. He did this on Crimson Cringe, in Yosemite. There is also another climb in Yosemite that is called Hangdog Flyer, Ray hangd dogged on this, hence the name. All put up before sport climbing ever came into the picture...
Sorry bro, just the way it is.
[ This Message was edited by: radistrad on 2002-04-03 17:51 ]
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joemor
Apr 4, 2002, 3:05 AM
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the bowline follow through is the best knot in the world..... just tie in with a boline and where the tail finishes follow the bit of rope next to it back through the harness loops and continue following it until it comes out the top of the knot where the rope goes out to your belayer. its a great knot to take falls on and can be untied with one very pumped hand, which a fig 8 cant very often, give it a go it rocks.
joe
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miagi
Apr 4, 2002, 3:15 AM
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which is stronger? Double bowline with the finish through and a stopper or the Yosemite finish?
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laplaya
Apr 4, 2002, 4:55 AM
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hey, Ive got an idea...how about cliping a screamer between your harness and the rope? just an idea.
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jt512
Apr 4, 2002, 6:40 PM
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Quote:Trad climbers did invent hang dogging. Ray Jardine (inventor of cams) was the first person to use the hang dogging technique. He did this on Crimson Cringe, in Yosemite. There is also another climb in Yosemite that is called Hangdog Flyer, Ray hangd dogged on this, hence the name. All put up before sport climbing ever came into the picture... Sorry bro, just the way it is.
Actually, this is good to know. I'll keep this in mind for the next time some Old Trad Phart starts whining about sport climbers using "poor style."
-Jay
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jt512
Apr 4, 2002, 7:14 PM
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Quote:joemor: the bowline follow through is the best knot in the world.....
Here's a link to a picture of the knot joemor is referring to:
Rethreaded bowline
I use a double bowline with a bowline backup. The advantage of the bowline backup is that it keeps the tail pointing down, out of the way.
Double bowline with a bowline backup
With any bowline, it is critical that the knot be tied exactly as shown. If you make any of turns in the wrong direction, you get an unreliable knot.
-Jay
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radistrad
Apr 5, 2002, 3:53 PM
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jt512,
I want to tell you where I got my info on hangdogging.
I got it from issue #68 of Rock and Ice July/Aug 1995.
The article says the norm (about 1977)was for a climber to get as high he could and when he pooped or popped, he would lower off and another climber would head on up. Ray Jardine got a lot of flack at the time for hangdoggin, as he puts it he was a target because he was a free thinking individual.
I hope you can use this when the "timers" (old farts) try and discount an ascent because it was done by hang doggin.
-Rob
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rrrADAM
Apr 5, 2002, 4:20 PM
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I read this somewhere...
Amount of reduced strength of rope in knot:
F8 = -15%
DBL = -35%
OH = -45%
The larger the knot, the greater the radius of the rope when knotted. Greater radius less strength lost, smaller radius = more strength lost. (This reffers to the smallest measured radius whithin the knot.)
rrrADAM
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