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trevor
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Aug 7, 2001, 11:44 PM
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Rockclimbers tend to be interested in lots of outdoor activities in addition to rock climbing. How many of you are interested in search & rescue? Have you been part of a team in the past? Are you interested in learning more about this? Should we add a section to the website that talks about Search & Rescue?


blackaven


Aug 8, 2001, 5:57 AM
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I'd be interested in a search and rescue page....maybe this should be the next poll


Partner matt


Aug 8, 2001, 6:59 AM
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Sounds interesting. I agree...let's poll it.


jmcdonough


Aug 8, 2001, 8:09 AM
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As an avid climber, Firefighter/Paramedic, and Urban Search & Rescue Tech, I feel that Rescue (especially self-rescue) is not stressed enough to today's climbers. It seems to be an avoided topic, whether it is due to lack of knowledge or the "It can't happen to me" mentality that some climbers have. I think a forum would begin to break some of the ice, both with rescue beta and maybe some stories from real rescues (good & bad). Remmember, there is no such thing as being too safe. For those of you other "Rescue Gurus" out there, share the knowledge. The next person you give rescue beta to might thank you later when it saves their life.


boulder_chalk


Aug 8, 2001, 8:34 AM
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I agree with jeff, and i don't want to rewrite what he said, just want to say that this is really going to help people all over that climb. Be safe, climb more!


kagunkie


Aug 8, 2001, 8:31 PM
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SAR is probably an excellent idea and would be a great addition. Although its a topic I usually avoid. Its like taking a bad tasting medicine "good for you" so Ill have to give a yes vote. Although Im not sure how much Ill be able to contribute.

[ This Message was edited by: kagunkie on 2001-08-08 22:59 ]


climber1


Aug 8, 2001, 10:20 PM
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I think a search and rescue forum is a great idea.


Partner jhundrup


Aug 9, 2001, 2:59 PM
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I am the VP for Kootenai County Search and Rescue and I get a lot of satisfaction from helping others. If there are people interested in being part of a Search and Rescue organization I strongly recommend getting involved.

Jared


whateverjrs


Aug 22, 2001, 2:44 PM
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I'm not old enough for search and rescue, but i plan to do when i am. so i think a section on it would be good.


graniteboy


Dec 28, 2001, 7:27 PM
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OH HELL YES!!
If we had a Rescue Forum page, I would spend alot less time bailing BUMBLY PEGS out of their PREDICAMENTS. Then I could actually Go CLIMBING when I'm at the crags (or in the big ranges....).
Please help get this thread back on the minds of the RC.com administrators, who should recognize it's importance, although they apparently DO NOT, because I see no rescue/self rescue forum..... This is a MUCH higher priority item than some of the other FOO FOO stuff that gets lots of attention on this website...


reno


Dec 28, 2001, 7:35 PM
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My climbing instructor and I have discussed rescue when we climb, and hit on the idea of holding a wilderness rescue/wilderness medicine class for local Fire Departments/EMS providers. He's teaching the rope stuff, I'm teaching the medicine part (like jmcdonough, I am also a paramedic.) It's a great topic, and so far has enjoyed a warm reception. I think there should be a place for such a topic on rc.com

Best,

JRB


squeeks


Dec 28, 2001, 7:36 PM
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YEAH! im game for that.


graniteboy


Dec 28, 2001, 9:00 PM
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Expatbrit;
Although I appreciate your concern over this "liability" issue for RC.com, the Fact is that they're already dealing with a situation in which many many people are feeding info about life or death methods, equipment, and judgement into the system. Look at just about any forum in here. There are hundreds of posts concerning the safe or proper way to do things. The bad info gets sussed out by people calling the dummies on their bad posts when they post them. And, yes, there ARE some morons out there posting incredibly bad information on THIS SITE.... But they get swopped upside the head just about as soon as they post. So I don't get the reasoning behind your concern....


squeeks


Dec 28, 2001, 9:16 PM
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yeah i agree, i dont think it should be a major concern. there are so many people here that it would be impossible for all of us to give false info with out at least one person arguing the correctness. usually if that is the case, people tend to research more till the correct info is found. i think it will work out great.


andy_lemon


Dec 29, 2001, 5:16 PM
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Steve Preflat from Indiana (SteveP is his name on this site) IS a search and rescue guy. You can email him for some info. Him and his team sometimes practice at Hemlock Cliffs which you can locate under Indiana routes on this site.

Thank you..


tacoman


Dec 29, 2001, 7:25 PM
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im in to search and rescue know and would like to see more on it on this site


socialclimber


Dec 30, 2001, 2:34 AM
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I don't think a poll is needed The people have spoken! I reckon you should just do it. (WARNING:Just do itis a trade mark of Nike Corp.)

[ This Message was edited by: socialclimber on 2001-12-30 02:37 ]


graniteboy


Dec 30, 2001, 9:31 AM
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Good. As I suspected.
We'll get them to put in a SAR forum.

I've played the county SAR game as well, and studied it in a fancy College SAR program. But now, I tend to focus more on self rescue for small parties. I've taught crevasse extrication, small party lowering methods, etc; the kind of stuff you deal with in real situations immediately when they happen.
Most SAR groups focus on all the stuff you never have when you're actually involved in an INCIDENT on the mountain. When your partner has just broken their leg, you rarely have a stokes, edge rollers, etc handy. I say we try to focus the discussion in that direction (small party self rescue methods). If you want info on how to do all that "fireman/Sherrif" stuff, there are excellent sites for that elsewhere.
Stay safe. Granite.


diarmid


Dec 30, 2001, 10:41 AM
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Better than setting up the forum - get involved. Nothing is more satisfying than helping a fellow climber/mountaineer out of a spot of trouble. And real experiance beats reading a forum any day. If you cannot get out and become involved, at least support your local (or any) SAR. Volunteer time and/or money to help them get the equipment they need. These guys go and do some pretty harrowing things with very little thanks and very little return for what they do. Even if all you do is run a fund raiser (anyone can flip a burger!) something is better than nothing! If nothing else, next time you see one, (and this includes paramedics, EMTs, First Responders, etc.) tell them 'thank you' for their selflessness. It is a very simple gesture, and they'll appreciate it.

To quote the motto of one of the finest SAR teams out there: "That others may live"...


graniteboy


Dec 30, 2001, 1:31 PM
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No doubt that we all have respect for the organized SAR groups that we work with in our hometown areas, BUT, how many lives would be saved if every climber knew self rescue techniques?
Response time for most technical SAR situations is much longer than the time it takes for a belayer to effect a simple self rescue on their partner. Although SAR teams are a critical component in the safety net, they should be a secondary component for most climbing accidents, not the primary component. Depending solely on SAR teams for rescue is like solely depending on EMT's/Parameds for CPR. Just like Everyone should know CPR, every climber should know self rescue methods. While we're on the topic of CPR, I have a number of friends who would be dead if their partners didn't know both self rescue and CPR. If their partners had simply waited for the SAR team, these guys would be dead.
AND remember: The best rescue is No rescue, because none was needed.


studmuffin


Dec 30, 2001, 5:30 PM
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a search and rescue section would be awesome, let's add one.


diarmid


Dec 31, 2001, 1:30 PM
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I agree: it often does take SAR teams a deal of time to get places and I certainly support the idea of everyone knowing self rescue; however, I am concerned that people should come to the site, read the SAR forum and think themselves somehow compatent (sp?) to perform the same as a people with experiance in the field. A little knowledge makes one dangerous ... that is why I recommend hanging out with a SAR group to learn basic procedures for SAR, to gain real life experiance to supplement the knowledge read in the forum. I've worked SAR and am a certified CPR instructor - and I've seen instances of people who think they know what they are doing and with good intent go and create a more dangerous situation than was there before the interference.

By all means put up the forum, just be sure to caution people that simply reading posts will not make them Johnny Hero. Only saying it 'cause I've seen it.


graniteboy


Dec 31, 2001, 2:07 PM
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Right. We're agreed. Self Rescue Forum.
Any RC.com administrators reading this?
Let's get going on this one.
maybe call it "small party rescue"...or "self rescue"...
Diamid, I've definitely seen lots of amateur Johnny heroes out there screwing things up for the SAR crew. Unfortunately, I can also cite cases where the people who were supposed to be SAR certified were complete bumbly pegs...especially compared to guides and certified climbing bums. If you don't climb every day and deal with rope management every day, you're gonna get rusty. That's exactly why YOSAR looks to the climbing community for their recruits.

But anyway; the simple stuff, like belay escapes, Bilgiris (gee, what's a bilgiri..??), and lower outs, should definitely be covered here.


ktclimb


Dec 31, 2001, 2:12 PM
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Yes, I would definitely be interested. I am at school now, with the purpose to work as a ranger, and I really want to do search and rescue! My main application for the summer is for the internship at Yosemite with YOSAR. I am drooling for that one. So I think it would be a welcome addition to this site.


beyond_gravity


Jan 1, 2002, 9:39 PM
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i've been hurt so much i've learned to rap without rope. so i no longer need S&R. I can also make a dog sled out of butter, and make a bike out of rice cakes.

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