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crackboy
Mar 26, 2004, 6:37 AM
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apologize for the total newb question so bear with me
OK so was flipping through the ST big wall book and saw the recomended rack for Skull Queen was like 10 rivet hangers.
i always thought that rivet hangers were something you kind of used like hooks and didnt really leave them for pro, but i guess i was wrong
so do you guys leave em as pieces or just use em and go?
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apollodorus
Mar 26, 2004, 7:49 AM
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You should leave the hangers as pro. If you are on a really long rivet ladder, you might want to only leave every other one.
Tom Davies (mrhardgrit) can tell you that backcleaning rivets on an aid route is not a good idea. He took a bad fall on Eagle's Way that was exacerbated by his backcleaning rivet hangers.
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jon06
Mar 9, 2006, 11:40 PM
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Okay, I'm going to hijack this one.
So I mad a couple of key-hole hangers by sawing out a little piece of metal on
some standard bolt hangers. They work great for body wieght, but What I was concerned about is this: How strong would these guys be. I mean If I were on a sport climb that was a hanger, could I expect my homade hangers to catch a fall?
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skinner
Mar 10, 2006, 12:40 AM
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Rivet:
A short metal stud which is tapped into a drilled hole
Rivets are usually body weight only and were put in by the F.A. to minimize the amount of drilling that would be required to bolt a blank section. As pro they suck, and cannot be trusted for more then just body weight.. and sometimes not even that.
I usually move the hangers as I go, and use anything from a small wired nut to a dedicated rivet hanger. There are several types of hangers available. The keyhole style that are sharpened to a thin edge where they contact the rivet seem to work the best. I don't know of anyone who actually "likes" rivet ladders as they tend to make you sweat, cringe, pucker, and occasionally fill your diapers.
http://images.usoutdoorstore.com/.../full/p-1055!774.jpg
http://us.st11.yimg.com/...05811_1885_168588727
http://images.usoutdoorstore.com/...ll/p-KEYHOLE!841.jpg
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holdplease2
Mar 10, 2006, 12:46 AM
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Registered: Dec 18, 2002
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Hi:
I consider myself the resident expert on rivit hangers and rivit climbing.
This is because I am, quite possibly, the worst at it of every one of us on this site.
This summer on a long and ardouus solo, I made a bad bad mistake on a rivit ladder.
1) I placed a very thin rivit hanger...know that these will not hold falls and did not, in my case, even hold body weight.
2) In the ensuing fall, I ripped 8 pieces of gear, including ripped out rivits, broken rivit hangers, broken heads, and broken screamers. Every piece of pro had a screamer. 120 feet and a bolt 10 feet above the anchor caught me. Whew.
Know this:
1) Some rivit hangers hold falls, some do not. Get some keyhole hangers and fat wire hangers to give yourself a fighting chance.
2) Some rivits are less than 1/4 inch into the wall. They often are not long like bolts, climb carefully. Rivits may or may not hold a fall, or even a bounce test.
3) Know how to replace a rivit if you rip one. Go to fish.com for advice and materials.
4) Some rivits are so close to the wall that only a thin wire rivit hanger will work...this is rough duty. Get yourself a FISH dubloon at Fishproducts.com, this is rated to 1000+ pounds, and is a ground-down washer that you can hang behind rivits that are over drive.
5) Get screamers if you plan to clip rivits, just to give yourself a fighting chance.
6) Clipping only every other rivit means that when you fall and rip them out, you can still get thru with bat hooking or stick clipping if you are not qualified to replace the rivits. Still, it only gives you half the chance of having your fall arrested.
7) Most, if not all wire rivit hangers are made in some dudes garage. BOUNCE TEST THEM ON THE GROUND. We are not talking Black Diamond Three Sigma ratings here. The integrity of your gear is your responsibility. Ugh. BUY FROM A TRUSTED SOURCE - I recommend Fishproducts.com.
The rivit hanger that blew out on me was made by Verm and sold to me by the Yosemite Mountain Shop...both known to be reliable vendors with good reputations.
Anyway, FWIW
-Kate.
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flamer
Mar 10, 2006, 12:50 AM
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In reply to: 1) I placed a very thin rivit hanger...know that these will not hold falls and did not, in my case, even hold body weight.
Did you just call yourself fat?
josh
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apollodorus
Mar 10, 2006, 1:21 AM
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Registered: Feb 18, 2002
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You should leave the rivet hangers as pro. If they look shaky, put screamers on them. If they look really good, you might only leave every other one to conserve hangers.
If the MacTopo says to bring 10 rivet hangers, bring 10 fat wire ones (the cable type shown with two clip-in loops). Also, bring about 5 thin-wire ones in case the rivet heads are really close to the rock. If you have keyholes, bring them, too, but don't rely on just keyholes. Sometimes you can't get the rigid keyhole plate to go over the rivet head.
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texplorer
Mar 15, 2006, 5:27 AM
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Registered: Oct 24, 2002
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Yes, rivet hangers can be used as pro. While they look scary they can hold falls. Kate had a strange case where her rivet hanger broke. In many places you are more scared of the rivet itself coming out. Anyway, I made all my own hangers and they worked fine on 2 walls last summer.
You can buy em in the valley at the mountain shop or from someone on this site (myself included). Kate bought hers at the Mountain shop and I don't know where she'd recommend buying them now.
Also, the supertopo usually overshoots on how much gear you'll need. I agree with the above poster about bringing a few beefier ones and a few smaller gauge cabled ones. Don't use the cinch hangers for pro. They look like they'd work better but they have a low breaking strength.
Good luck
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holdplease2
Mar 15, 2006, 6:17 AM
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Registered: Dec 18, 2002
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If anyone cares, I'd recommend FISH, cause I trust that guy. Then I recommend bounce testing them on the deck first.
www.fishproducts.com
You can also get heads there. Fish heads...get it?
That yellow-slung pika thing is nice, but it is ground wrong, it has a bevel on BOTH sides of the washer, meaning it can't grip super-close-to-the-wall rivits as well as the FISH dubloon can. But it has a bigger hole, so it fits over machine heads wheras the FISH dubloon cannot.
I have two of the pikas and walk them on my aiders on rivit ladders. They allow for a lite bounce test and are easier to get on/off the rivit than the cinch hangers. And rated to 1000k plus, they are stronger than medium or thin wire hangers.
Nomad Ventures in Joshua Tree carries the pika things and all fish swaged products.
:)
-Kate.
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