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andypro
Mar 29, 2004, 7:13 AM
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I see alot of posts going on about adjustable daisies, but I cant find any about adjustable aiders (other than mentioned in passing).
So..what do you guys think of them? Is it better to stick to a normal aider or is adjustable any better?
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timpanogos
Mar 29, 2004, 3:11 PM
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Buy a pair, try them out - never go back. Some real hard core speed climbers stick with traditional loops - ones who seldom weigth the things anyway. If you are like me and weight your daisy a lot - adjustables are the ticket.
Fish or yates will release while weighted - a huge benifit for the likes of roofs, traversals and loading a rap. - among others.
I leave one one when tradding - to work anchors.
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bigwalling
Mar 29, 2004, 3:25 PM
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This is about aiders dude. I have a partner who uses them, he has it pretty figured out. But don't think I would ever go to them. Cause I don't even like adjustable daisies a ton.
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lambone
Mar 29, 2004, 4:41 PM
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too many straps to pull on, and keep track of is not a good thing.
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timpanogos
Mar 29, 2004, 4:46 PM
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Andrewpro said in first post"
In reply to: I see alot of posts going on about adjustable daisies,
I later noticed the title was adjustable aiders - so, which one are you really asking about?
Chad
If aiders - I'd have to think that when you have one leg up high and trying to do the old - toe flick to get that second foot in (or cussing and learning over to flip it into a good place under your arch.
That trying to suck up an adjustable would be back news - you would be pulling up for one thing.
don't know, never tried these
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mike_ok
Mar 29, 2004, 4:53 PM
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I see them having two functions:
1. Very lightweight option to keep with you on a mostly free route with one or two aid moves.
2. Great for Jugging... can get them at the perfect length, w/out extra loops hanging everywhere.
I've considered them for regular aid duty, but really don't have enough experience to start tinkering with my system yet anyway.
One comment: you'd never have that "toe flick" problem here, since adjustable aiders only have one step. ie, you have to put your second foot in a second aider - you'd never be trying to toe flick into the same aider.
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timpanogos
Mar 29, 2004, 7:00 PM
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In reply to: you'd never have that "toe flick" problem here, since adjustable aiders only have one step. ie, you have to put your second foot in a second aider - you'd never be trying to toe flick into the same aider.
Chicken/egg – lets start with chicken
1. Both feet are fully retracted – I’m standing in them and I make next placement.
2. I hang on daisy ,remove feet – extend them all the way – remove aiders.
3. reach up and connect aiders to next piece – get into the feet.
4. All weight on one foot – suck that 2nd foot loop way on up there – as high as you dare do the next single leg press.
5. now, leg press on up onto that new level.
Dang – your right, no toe flick problem here, nothing to flick – got to reach down and suck the thing up to your level.
On scary stuff – you may be wanting to move up at least twice
Chad
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lambone
Mar 29, 2004, 9:26 PM
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Chad,
You don't remove your feet from Adjustable aiders, at least the metolius ones. Your feet are strapped in and you adjust the length of the aider.
They seem really awkward to me, but I haven't used them...
I watched someone use them once, and they were painfully slow, constantly adjusting the straps back and forth...regular aiders are the fastest.
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tim
Mar 29, 2004, 9:30 PM
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Pre-order a pair of Russians from Fish instead :-)
faster smaller lighter and easier to free climb in :-)
ps. Don't take my word for it -- look at guys like Jim Donini, Tom McMillan, Greg Crouch -- Real Climbers who can't afford to screw around with BS that doesn't work -- and they all swear by the Russians. They're really fantastic, now if someone (cough) would just start making them again, I could get my partners to dispense with the wad-of-nylon tangles.
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smithclimber
Mar 29, 2004, 10:05 PM
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When the Metolius Adj. Aiders were first hitting the market, the Rep showed me a pair. I tried them out and could make them work fine (although you are doing an awful lot of fiddling/adjusting), but they just aren't the way to go.
There are a whole bunch of times when they will not work as well as regular aiders (which I'm not going to go into here), therefore creating many limitations. As mentioned above, they are just too slow as well.
They can be alright for jugging (cause your feet will never flop out of the step), but who wants to carry another set of aiders strictly for jugging? Silly.
If you have aiders that utilize an elastic strap (i.e. Yates wall ladders) on the 4th and 5th steps, you won't have your feet coming out of the aiders while jugging anyway.
If your regular aiders don't have elastic straps, then get to sewin' some on!
If you really start to think about ALL the situations that you use aiders for (hauling, setting up portaledges, retrieving things from the pigs, etc.), you will quickly see just how limiting the adj. ones are.
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lambone
Mar 29, 2004, 10:07 PM
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In reply to: If you really start to think about ALL the situations that you use aiders for (hauling, setting up portaledges, retrieving things from the pigs, etc.), you will quickly see just how limiting the adj. ones are.
good point...same with Russians
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andypro
Mar 30, 2004, 3:40 AM
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In reply to: Andrewpro said in first post" In reply to: I see alot of posts going on about adjustable daisies, I later noticed the title was adjustable aiders - so, which one are you really asking about?
Hmm..maybe there was a hiccup in what rc.com shoed you? I dunno. Said adjustable aiders two or three times in the post.
Anywhoo...you guys make alot of good points I never thought about. Most importantly using them for thigns other than aid...I think I'm gonna stick with normal ones. Maybe I'll get some of the ladder style...hmm...damn..I need help. I cant not spend money...maybe a hypnotist :cry:
Edit to say: What's this about russians? I thought I read a while ago that Russ gave up on them because he couldn't get the bits, or couldn't get the leg things figgered out. If he's actually making them, sign me up!
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calamity_chk
Mar 30, 2004, 5:23 PM
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it'll be a bit before i'm stepping into aiders again, but i'd sure like to get my little feet into some russians when that finally happens. i climbed with tim and just gauked at the simplicity of the russians vs the overwhleming clusterfuck of my traditional aiders .. though, the superstitious part of me thinks that i should just buy flamer's aiders from him and keep them with me always. :lol:
from a pragmatic standpoint though, i fully intend to pursue russians for the sheer lack of crap hanging off you.
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tedc
Mar 30, 2004, 5:46 PM
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I cobbled up a system a year or so ago where I used the combination of Adjustable Daisies and the Russian "leggings" (no-trees) to make an adjustable aider system. Used a biner in the loop by the leg hook to clip into the adjustable "aider". This system allowed for nearly perfect position and balance for really high, really complicated placements and was light and compact. BUT, it is really slow. You have to deal with 3 adjustable buckles by your placement. Left foot UP, right foot UP, stand and chinch UP diasy. (possibly repeat). The PITA was extending the aiders before using them on the next piece.
I bit hard to describe. Maybe I'll try to pose a picture in the garage to demonstrate.
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