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camhead
Apr 2, 2004, 11:54 PM
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In reply to: A season of trad climbing will help your sport climbing about as much as a season of hanging out in the public library will. -Jay
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!11 You have graphs and statistics to prove this, right?
In reply to: For most of us, tradding 5.11 or below, the climbing just isn't powerful enough to be good training for sport climbing.
Oh. Okay, I get it; a qualification. You are assuming that "a season of trad climbing" means "a season of doing 5.7 moderates with a bunch of hexes and 11mm rope." don't. there are weakmo's in sport as well as trad, that means nothing.
my personal take: Indian Creek hones my endurance like none other. I onsighted my hardest sport climb ever after climbing trad for a straight month. The only time I ever climb sport is at Potrero over New Years, and my performance does not suffer at all.
For me, it's about bouldering for that short power edge, tradding for endurance and testicles, and sporting as an afterthought, nothing more.
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mreardon
Apr 3, 2004, 12:01 AM
Post #27 of 48
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: A season of trad climbing will help your sport climbing about as much as a season of hanging out in the public library will. -Jay This has to be a troll. A month ago I went to a couple popular sport areas, the "projects" went in one or two sessions. And now one particular climb that has only seen one send that I could barely pull a move, is about to get a second. I'll stick to trad for training anyday. :D No, it wasn't a troll. The training effect you're getting from trad climbing might be afunction of the level you're trad climbing. For most of us, tradding 5.11 or below, the climbing just isn't powerful enough to be good training for sport climbing. Additionally, Mike, I wouldn't discount the possibility that the bouldering and gym climbing that I suspect you do aren't more responsible for your getting stronger at sport climbing. Even if you are getting a cross-training effect from trad climbing, there are a lot more efficient ways to get stronger at sport climbing -- if that's your goal -- than by trad climbing. -Jay
Okay, that makes sense. Generally speaking, when I'm climbing 5.10 or less my sport climbing does tend to go down. However, when I climb the upper grades, my sport climbing goes up as well. I was working a 13a trad line and a 13d sport route was much easier. I've also found that using a rope helps on the mental game....
As for the bouldering, I haven't done anything harder than V7 in a while. Of course the V7 was a couple hundred feet up :D
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rrrADAM
Apr 3, 2004, 12:17 AM
Post #28 of 48
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Trad climbing at or above one's limit tends to build endurance better than any other style, as you spend much longer on the rock setting pro. I have done Trad for a long period to find my Sport had improved simply due to the better endurance. That endurance allowed me to figure out the moves and get quite a few onsights, when normally I would pump out.
Jay... I remember you using two terms often, "technical crux"(hard) and "redpoint crux"(endurance). I think hard sport climbing is good for the technical benifits, and Trad helps build endurance for the "redpoint cruxes". Do you agree with this statement ???
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tradmanclimbs
Apr 3, 2004, 1:01 AM
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:roll: I had forgotten how tottally convinced Jay is that his feces smells like roses :roll: I suppose that if all you want in life is to be a big name sport climber then you should stick to gym workouts and sport specific training. If your goal is to climb and have fun then you will probobly find that most of the climbing that you do will help you inprove your climbing in other area's. Yes, rest days are important and I don't take enough of them when on trips. It is hard to blow a good weather day when you are destination climbing and only have 10 days before you have to go home thousands of miles away. I never stated that you couldn't take a rest day or 2 after your road trip before going to rumny or whatever. I just stated that if you have just climbed a couple of miles of rock 40 ft dosen't seem like that big a deal. Here in the east we don't have as many continous crack climbs as you do out west. many of our trad climbs have quite a bit of face climbing on them.
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jt512
Apr 3, 2004, 1:11 AM
Post #30 of 48
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In reply to: In reply to: A season of trad climbing will help your sport climbing about as much as a season of hanging out in the public library will. -Jay HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!11 You have graphs and statistics to prove this, right? In reply to: For most of us, tradding 5.11 or below, the climbing just isn't powerful enough to be good training for sport climbing. Oh. Okay, I get it; a qualification. You are assuming that "a season of trad climbing" means "a season of doing 5.7 moderates with a bunch of hexes and 11mm rope."
Obviously, it is you who doesn't get it, or just can't read. I said "5.11 or below." Mike Reardon, essentially agrees with me (see his second post), except he puts the cutoff at 5.10. Close enough.
In reply to: there are weakmo's in sport as well as trad.
What does that have to do with training for sport climbing?
In reply to: my personal take: Indian Creek hones my endurance like none other.
I have little doubt that you can gain endurance at Indian Creek; however, I'll bet that for training endurance for sport climbing, climbing long sport climbs would be more effective.
In reply to: I onsighted my hardest sport climb ever after climbing trad for a straight month. The only time I ever climb sport is at Potrero over New Years, and my performance does not suffer at all.
But stating that your performance doesn't suffer doesn't mean that it doesn't improve either. And, let me guess, your hardest route at Portrero was an endurance route. Right?
In reply to: For me, it's about bouldering for that short power edge, tradding for endurance and testicles, and sporting as an afterthought, nothing more.
Then you're getting your sport climbing power from bouldering. That was easy. Next.
-Jay
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jt512
Apr 3, 2004, 1:19 AM
Post #31 of 48
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In reply to: Trad climbing at or above one's limit tends to build endurance better than any other style, as you spend much longer on the rock setting pro. I have done Trad for a long period to find my Sport had improved simply due to the better endurance. That endurance allowed me to figure out the moves and get quite a few onsights, when normally I would pump out. Jay... I remember you using two terms often, "technical crux"(hard) and "redpoint crux"(endurance). I think hard sport climbing is good for the technical benifits, and Trad helps build endurance for the "redpoint cruxes". Do you agree with this statement ???
Okay, enough people are saying that trad helps your sport climbing by building endurance, that I'm starting to buy it. Obviously, you can build endurance sport climbing, too. I've spent several half-seasons climbing trad up to 5.11b, and I've always found, that when I've returned to sport climbing, I've lost power. Did I gain endurance? I don't know, because when you don't have the power to pull the crux, endurance doesn't matter. In contrast, I've gone a couple of years with sport climbing almost 100% of the time, and when I returned to trad found that I had improved by 2 to 3 letter grades -- without having done any trad.
-Jay
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jt512
Apr 3, 2004, 1:34 AM
Post #32 of 48
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In reply to: I suppose that if all you want in life is to be a big name sport climber then you should stick to gym workouts and sport specific training.
Nobody said you should stick to one kind of climbing. All I said I said is that your contention that trad climbing will help your sport climbing was wrong, unless perhaps, you are trad climbing at a high standard.
In reply to: If your goal is to climb and have fun then you will probobly find that most of the climbing that you do will help you inprove your climbing in other area's.
And repeating it doesn't make it any less wrong.
-Jay
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alpnclmbr1
Apr 3, 2004, 1:47 AM
Post #33 of 48
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In reply to: In contrast, I've gone a couple of years with sport climbing almost 100% of the time, and when I returned to trad found that I had improved by 2 to 3 letter grades -- without having done any trad. -Jay
So by the best thing you can do for you're sport climbing to sport climb. You even extend that to it also being the best thing you can do for you're trad climbing?
For most of the fledgling sport climbers out there, the best possible thing any of them could do is to learn how to trad climb.
To all people who want to climb hard sport.
You want to climb hard numbers(be cool) and the quickest way to do that is to focus on one aspect of the sport and wire it.
or
You take the view that the best way to get better is to have fun and to not get bored from being overly fixated on one thing. To that end, mix it up, trad, sport, and bouldering. Mix it up on a day to day, week to week, and year to year basis.
If you want to climb hard sport, go sport climbing.
If you want to climb really hard sport, go trad climbing.
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fixedpin
Apr 3, 2004, 1:48 AM
Post #34 of 48
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In reply to: Okay, enough people are saying that trad helps your sport climbing by building endurance, that I'm starting to buy it. Obviously, you can build endurance sport climbing, too. I've spent several half-seasons climbing trad up to 5.11b, and I've always found, that when I've returned to sport climbing, I've lost power.
Maybe you need to actually climb some hard trad routes before you make such sweeping generalizations. Also, doing short trad routes will not develop endurance; try longer sustained routes. Perhaps we can summarize your experience in another way which will illustrate a lapse in logic:
"I climb up to 12c trad routes, but when I go sport climbing, I never get on anything harder than 11b. I've always found that when I return to trad climbing, I've lost power."
Is anyone surprised?
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tradmanclimbs
Apr 3, 2004, 2:27 AM
Post #35 of 48
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So jay is trying to tell me that if i sit on my butt all summer in the library sipping Lattes and drinking smuggled in hooch that by the end of the summer i will be a stronger sport climber than if I spend the whole summer lugging copious ammounts of gear up torturous scree slopes and then dragging my sorry old heini up miles of rock with all that iron and alliminum hanging off me. All that weight training alone makes me feel light and snappy when i rope up with 6 or 8 draws on my belt 8) If jay is a 12 C sport climber and he climbs 12c trad then i fail to see were he is loseing strength? If he is leading the trad a grade or so below his sport level then it is obvious that he is slacking off while trad climbing and thats were he is loseing the strength :D
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jt512
Apr 3, 2004, 3:08 AM
Post #36 of 48
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In reply to: In reply to: Okay, enough people are saying that trad helps your sport climbing by building endurance, that I'm starting to buy it. Obviously, you can build endurance sport climbing, too. I've spent several half-seasons climbing trad up to 5.11b, and I've always found, that when I've returned to sport climbing, I've lost power. Maybe you need to actually climb some hard trad routes before you make such sweeping generalizations. Also, doing short trad routes will not develop endurance; try longer sustained routes. Perhaps we can summarize your experience in another way which will illustrate a lapse in logic: "I climb up to 12c trad routes, but when I go sport climbing, I never get on anything harder than 11b. I've always found that when I return to trad climbing, I've lost power." Is anyone surprised?
You make a good point, excpet I wasn't sport climbing 12c when I was trad climbing 11b. And grade for grade, trad climbing is less powerful than sport climbing. Yes, I know there are exceptions.
-Jay
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jt512
Apr 3, 2004, 3:12 AM
Post #37 of 48
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In reply to: So jay is trying to tell me that if i sit on my butt all summer in the library sipping Lattes and drinking smuggled in hooch that by the end of the summer i will be a stronger sport climber than if I spend the whole summer lugging copious ammounts of gear up torturous scree slopes and then dragging my sorry old heini up miles of rock with all that iron and alliminum hanging off me.
That's not what I said, but now that you mention it, all that leg muscle you're going to build up slogging your gear up Mt. Slab won't do anything but weigh you down sport climbing.
-Jay
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jt512
Apr 3, 2004, 3:18 AM
Post #38 of 48
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In reply to: In reply to: In contrast, I've gone a couple of years with sport climbing almost 100% of the time, and when I returned to trad found that I had improved by 2 to 3 letter grades -- without having done any trad. -Jay So by the best thing you can do for you're sport climbing to sport climb. You even extend that to it also being the best thing you can do for you're trad climbing?
No I didn't say that at all. What I said was that sport climbing helped my trad climbing. If my main goal was to improve my trad climbing, I'd have done more trad climbing, and less sport climbing, obviously.
-Jay
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curt
Apr 3, 2004, 3:23 AM
Post #39 of 48
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Do NOT hike up to the White Cliffs of Dover ever again as this will surely end your sport climbing career. You will develop massive legs and be relegated to lowly trad climbing and bouldering henceforth. :wink:
Curt
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coldclimb
Apr 3, 2004, 3:30 AM
Post #40 of 48
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In reply to: Nope... Sport climbing makes me better at Trad, and Trad makes be better at Sport. See it's all climbing, so the more I climb the better I get. Novel idea, huh ??? :wink:
Word.
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nthusiastj
Apr 3, 2004, 4:13 AM
Post #41 of 48
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In reply to: Nope... Sport climbing makes me better at Trad, and Trad makes be better at Sport. See it's all climbing, so the more I climb the better I get. Novel idea, huh ???
Couldn't agree more.
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a_scender
Apr 4, 2004, 12:12 AM
Post #42 of 48
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no way!!!
I would have to agree with the former posts that it's all climbing, and it all helps in the long run. I've got to many friends that are holding themselves back by only trad climbing, and not being open to different forms of climbing. what's up with that?
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tradmanclimbs
Apr 4, 2004, 12:34 AM
Post #43 of 48
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8) I totaly enjoy all styles of climbing. I Mostly trad climb in the summer and ice climb in the winter but spurt climb about once a week or so and boulder when i cant find partners although last summer I ended up soloing way more then bouldering :P My goal is to be able to climb my whole life rather than be a superstar for a short while and then burn out. The only kind of climbing i detest is gym climbing. Too many injuries and costly$$ I am helping Wild Woman build a woody in her garage tomorrow though :twisted: Go figure. We do intend to do a bit of dry tooling on it :twisted:
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bellatoris
Apr 9, 2004, 10:28 PM
Post #44 of 48
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Everyone is right....to a certain extent. I for one believe:
1) Hard, long steep pumpy sport routes in Malibu have given me enough power endurance to send routes a full number grade harder than I used to.
2) Bold trad climbing can eliminate the fear of falling on bolts. (Sadly this has not yet worked for me.)
3) Any form of climbing will ultimately transfer to gains in other forms of climbing. A point of contention might be specificity.
4) Unlocking face sequences helps me sometimes unlock hard trad sequences, eg. at red rocks, or needles.
5) Slabs are best for footwork.
Just my 2 cents.
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a_scender
Apr 9, 2004, 10:44 PM
Post #45 of 48
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In reply to: I just go climbing.
Thanks goodness, I thought I was the only one!! :lol:
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sonso45
Apr 10, 2004, 1:26 AM
Post #46 of 48
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Climbing is climbing and it does not matter what you climb, you will improve. I sport climb and it hasn't ruined trad climbing for me. I usually climb harder sport climbs than trad. It's cause I am less cautious when looking at good bolts and try to extend myself on a sport climb. I kind of agree with Jay, staying with one style of climbing will improve your performance in that style.
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tahoe_rock_master
Apr 10, 2004, 2:26 AM
Post #47 of 48
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In reply to: There are certainly trad climbs where the consequences of falling would be serious, but this is not the case on many trad routea, including many moderates. If you want to push your limits trad climbing, seek out such routes. If you know your gear is good, you can go for it, just as if you were on a sport route.
This is how I go into trad climbs, If the gear is good, then just climb it like a sport route, not afraid to take falls. :twisted: :twisted:
Matt
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kalcario
Apr 10, 2004, 2:39 AM
Post #48 of 48
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*If you want to climb hard sport, go sport climbing.
If you want to climb really hard sport, go trad climbing.*
What. Are. You. Smoking.
Is that how all the hundreds of Euros who can onsight 13b got so good? By going trad climbing? Most of them have never even placed a piece.
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