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climbfourteenk
Apr 5, 2004, 8:43 PM
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I was trying to get the FFA on a route i do very often on top rope near Harding University in Searcy, AR. As a trad route, it would go at aprox. 5.10a R/X. I had checked out the placements on TR a couple days earlier- 1 flared crack that would shakily take a .75 camalot about 25 feet up, Another flared crack 50 feet up that would take a #1, and then a bomber slot that could be slung 70ft. up which would protect the last over hanging crux.
I have been climbing seriously for about 2.5 years, and have run laps on this route for 4 semesters. Needless to say, I know it like the back of my now- shattered hand. I had contemplated a free-solo, but as i started to accumulate trad gear, i saw the possibility for a crazily run-out route, which seemed more prudent than the former.
The possibility of a free ascent of route we call "The Hump" itched at me every day since i had tested the placements. Finally, a week ago i found the time to try for the send. I got to the first placement (25-30 feet) and either the cam popped out when i was testing it or i botched the clip and my feet slipped (i blacked out so i am only relaying what my belayer, Ewan Heinemeir, said). The next thing i knew i was in the hospital with a shattered wrist which requires a screw and 2 pins, a concussion, seven staples in my head, bruised ribs, and a fractured scapula. SUCK!!!
I now have 12 weeks in a cast and a few more after that till i can climb... I guess the moral of this story is that risks have consequences... and God is good.... I could have been jacked way worse... or be dead..
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t-dog
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Apr 5, 2004, 8:47 PM
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Darwin award!!!!! :twisted:
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kman
Apr 5, 2004, 9:09 PM
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In reply to: have been climbing seriously for about 2.5 years, and have run laps on this route for 4 semesters. Needless to say, I know it like the back of my now- shattered hand. I had contemplated a free-solo,...
2.5 years and you considered free soloing a .10.??!! Your out of your mind.
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pawilkes
Apr 5, 2004, 9:14 PM
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my worse injury has been a broken leg. i did it about 3 months ago and am have only been in the gym a few times since it happened. as far as tibia fractures go it was kind of bad b/c i broke it at the knee which adds lots of longterm issues.
as far as my own stupidity in the accident, there was some for sure but it was a 5.8 sport lead so i wasn't doing something terribly difficult or with sketchy placements, just a bit run out. i had a foot chip break when i was about 4 feet to the right of the first bolt that was about 25 feet off the deck. i think i wouldn't have done so much damage had the landing been better.
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climbsomething
Apr 5, 2004, 9:18 PM
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If anything disturbs me it's that you thought a route couldn't be freed until it was led :roll:
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climbingaggie03
Apr 5, 2004, 10:04 PM
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Ok, well my worst injury was on rappel. I was top roping (solo) by setting an anchor then belaying my self with a gri-gri.
well on my 4th or 5th route that day, i set an anchor with two cams, equalized it with a sliding X, clipped my rope, set my gri-gri and leaned back. Well, my anchor failed and I fell 40 feet to the deck.
It was a weekday (which is why i couldn't find a partner) and i was the only person climbing. However, a family passing by found my lying there and called 911. I was careflighted out with a severe concussion, broken wrist (with a pinched nerve) broken pelvis, and 3 broken bones in my foot.
I spent the summer in a wheel chair with a cast on my arm, and had to have a few surgeries, but everything healed, and I finally got to start climbing again about 9 months later.
The stupid things about this were Climbing alone, relying solely on trad gear in rock of dubious quality, and using the X of death.
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outhere
Apr 5, 2004, 10:05 PM
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I try to lean away from R/X routes..
I was on a 5.9R/X one time by acident on a multi-pitch climb in linville gorge, nc and it wasn't much different then free soloing besides the fact you have to drag your rope and rack.
do lots of situps while your off the rock...you might get back and be better!
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kman
Apr 5, 2004, 10:10 PM
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In reply to: The stupid things about this were Climbing alone, relying solely on trad gear in rock of dubious quality, and using the X of death.
Might want to try a third piece for gear anchors next time aswell....and learn how to use it of course.
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wetrocks
Apr 5, 2004, 11:00 PM
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My stupidity was that I didn't take the unexpected snow seriously. We didn't have warm clothes for it but we just wanted to climb. We climbed and climbed with more snow coming down and got very cold and tired. Last rap of the day my brain wasn't with it....I was seriously shivering and I just wanted down, my rope ends weren't even so I rapped off the end of one of the ropes.
Unfortunately my collision with the ground gave me a nasty compound fracture at the elbow, 2 compression fractures in the back, broken ribs and broken collar bone. That was last November........I'm healed now and almost done my final exams....which I got to get back to studying for. The good news it that I've decided to take the summer off to catch up on all the lost climbing. Four straight months of climbing rehab will be perfect, as long as it doesn't snow. At least then I'll have something good to post about for a change.
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orion
Apr 5, 2004, 11:05 PM
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aggie: Oy! Yii! This is the stuff nightmares are made of. Glad you recovered!
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climbfourteenk
Apr 5, 2004, 11:28 PM
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In reply to: If anything disturbs me it's that you thought a route couldn't be freed until it was led :roll:
what i meant was climbed in good form... you don't redpoint a route by completing it on top rope....
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tahoe_rock_master
Apr 5, 2004, 11:45 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: The stupid things about this were Climbing alone, relying solely on trad gear in rock of dubious quality, and using the X of death. Might want to try a third piece for gear anchors next time aswell....and learn how to use it of course.
Seriously, who uses 2 cams as an anchor? What were you thinking?
Darwin award
Matt
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jt512
Apr 6, 2004, 12:26 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: If anything disturbs me it's that you thought a route couldn't be freed until it was led :roll: what i meant was climbed in good form... you don't redpoint a route by completing it on top rope....
What you meant was "first lead." What you did was overestimate your abilities.
-Jay
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angry
Apr 6, 2004, 1:13 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: The stupid things about this were Climbing alone, relying solely on trad gear in rock of dubious quality, and using the X of death. Might want to try a third piece for gear anchors next time aswell....and learn how to use it of course. Seriously, who uses 2 cams as an anchor? What were you thinking? Darwin award Matt
I can't wait until the technology to reach across the computer and slap the hell out of a gumby exists. 2 cams is OK, user error and rock quality - in that order caused the accident.
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gritstoner
Apr 6, 2004, 1:40 AM
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i shouldnt worry folks. i managed a 30ft er and all i got was a broken ankle. granted it was on an E3, and i shouldnt have let go near the top. so the moral of the story is not to let go no matter how close to thentop you get.
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fireyxplosion
Apr 6, 2004, 1:52 AM
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i scraped my knuckles once. they BLED too. :lol:
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harrisha
Apr 6, 2004, 2:28 AM
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I was sking not exactly climbing, so lets call it training for future ski mountaineering descents. This kid cut in front of me and as I was trying to slow down my ski tips got crossed-guess I hit ice or something it was hard pack NC fake stuff. Went hard to the deck and the rear tip dug in and I twisted and flipped around on my right knee. It ended well you could say-did nothing for eight weeks but only got a chip fracture at the top of my tibia and stretched my ligaments. Better than six month had it been an ACL tear.
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maculated
Apr 6, 2004, 3:45 AM
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maculated moved this thread from General to Injuries & Accidents.
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kman
Apr 6, 2004, 5:23 PM
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In reply to: I can't wait until the technology to reach across the computer and slap the hell out of a gumby exists. 2 cams is OK, user error and rock quality - in that order caused the accident.
Oh really? 2 cams in shitty rock obviously was not ok in this situation.
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jt512
Apr 6, 2004, 9:37 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: I can't wait until the technology to reach across the computer and slap the hell out of a gumby exists. 2 cams is OK, user error and rock quality - in that order caused the accident. Oh really? 2 cams in s--- rock obviously was not ok in this situation.
Two cams as the only pro for a TR anchor is substandard even in good rock. Three bomber pieces of removable pro, two bomber bolts, or one bomber tree or massive boulder, are the standard minimums for a TR anchor.
-Jay
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crotch
Apr 6, 2004, 9:57 PM
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In reply to: Two cams as the only pro for a TR anchor is substandard even in good rock. Three bomber pieces of removable pro, two bomber bolts, or one bomber tree or massive boulder, are the standard minimums for a TR anchor.
Perhaps this best belongs in a new thread, but I can't think of a clever enough title so lets get the drift started.
I find it interesting that two bolts, which the user cannot inspect (over-torqued?) and with an unknown history are acceptable, whereas 2 cams which I myself placed and know the history of which are placed in rock that I inspected in a placement that I can see, do not constitute an acceptable anchor.
Just curious why that is.
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coldclimb
Apr 6, 2004, 10:05 PM
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My worst injury was a strained tendon in my foot, from jumping down eight feet onto concrete. There was a ball on the roof of my school that was visible from a window in the main hall, and there was a staff meeting at the time, so not a teacher in sight. ;) Several students were rather surprised when I popped up over the wall onto the roof, though. :lol: I got the ball, and in my haste to get back down before I was spotted by someone who would get mad, I jumped off early and must have landed wrong. Couldn't walk normally for well over a month.
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jt512
Apr 6, 2004, 10:13 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Two cams as the only pro for a TR anchor is substandard even in good rock. Three bomber pieces of removable pro, two bomber bolts, or one bomber tree or massive boulder, are the standard minimums for a TR anchor. Perhaps this best belongs in a new thread, but I can't think of a clever enough title so lets get the drift started. I find it interesting that two bolts, which the user cannot inspect (over-torqued?) and with an unknown history are acceptable, whereas 2 cams which I myself placed and know the history of which are placed in rock that I inspected in a placement that I can see, do not constitute an acceptable anchor. Just curious why that is.
The philosophy behind anchors (IMO) is that each piece should be, in your judgment, able to hold the whole shebang. Then you put in enough pieces just like that to overcome possible errors in judgment. Statistically, it seems to me, that gear anchors are more prone to failure than bolt anchors, so more pieces would seem to be in order.
The other thing is strength. If one bolt were to fail, the remaining bolt (I'm assuming a modern one) would still give you a sufficient margin of safety in terms of strength. In contrast, should a single cam blow, you'd be down to one piece with a rated strength of perhaps only 2000 lbf, which is a lot less excess strength than you'd have with a bolt.
-Jay
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crotch
Apr 6, 2004, 10:23 PM
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In reply to: The other thing is strength. If one bolt were to fail, the remaining bolt (I'm assuming a modern one) would still give you a sufficient margin of safety in terms of strength. In contrast, should a single cam blow, you'd be down to one piece with a rated strength of perhaps only 2000 lbf, which is a lot less excess strength than you'd have with a bolt.
Let's make the example a pair of #2 camalots in good dry granite. 16kN each (~3500 lbf/cam off the top of my head) which is more than enough for any TR situation, right?
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jt512
Apr 6, 2004, 11:14 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: The other thing is strength. If one bolt were to fail, the remaining bolt (I'm assuming a modern one) would still give you a sufficient margin of safety in terms of strength. In contrast, should a single cam blow, you'd be down to one piece with a rated strength of perhaps only 2000 lbf, which is a lot less excess strength than you'd have with a bolt. Let's make the example a pair of #2 camalots in good dry granite. 16kN each (~3500 lbf/cam off the top of my head) which is more than enough for any TR situation, right?
I'd still put in a 3rd piece, if a placement were available. If not, I'd probably accept a 2-piece anchor.
I always assume with TR anchors that something is going to happen that I haven't thought about. For instance, someone decides to use the anchor to TR a route off to the side of the one the anchor was set up for. In a fall this would load the cams sequentially from the side, and could conceivably initiate a cascade failure. Maybe the anchor gets moved over just a few feet, but enough to put all the load on a single cam. The anchor is out of sight almost all of the time, so you can't correct the problem immediately. With a 2-bolt anchor, these situations would probably cause no problem at all; with a 2-cam anchor they significantly increase the chance of a single cam failure, and hence a total anchor failure.
How much redundancy is overkill? Obviously it's a judgment call. I don't like all-cam anchors because I consider it possible that they may be loaded from an unanticipated direction. If I have to bulid an all-cam TR anchor, unless I consider all three cams textbook placements, I'll put in a 4th cam and equalize it and the imperfect piece.
-Jay
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