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jimdavis
Apr 10, 2004, 11:30 PM
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I know much of this is personal preference, but how do Zero's 5 and 6 compair to Aliens Green and Yellow i think? I've done my research and know their features inside out and backwards, but how do they fair durability wise? How about how the lobes bite into the rock? The Zero's are much easier to find, and seem a little more flexible, but will they wear out faster than Aliens? Considering that the Zero's have cam stops, I'd like to get them, but not if I have to replace them and spend more money. Anybody wanna weigh in?
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tahoe_rock_master
Apr 11, 2004, 12:31 AM
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You should try searching the forums. I am sure this has been covered. That said, I have never used zero's, but I do have some Aliens and I love them. They hold up pretty well and 'bite' into the rock well. I would say get the Aliens, but again I have never ued the Zero's. Matt
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euroford
Apr 11, 2004, 12:32 AM
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i'd say you really can't go wrong with either. yeah camstops are always a plus and i guess its the only feature that really sets them ahead. i'm finding the zero's just keep growing on me, but i find the two quite equal on a placement for placement bases.
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whatsupdoc
Apr 11, 2004, 12:34 AM
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Aliens for one big reason. The distance from the trigger to the cams is much greater on the aliens (they're longer cams). For me, this makes placing them MUCH easier. I had a red zero (i sold it and bought a yellow alien, go figure) and I found my fingers getting in the way when placing it, especially if you need to place it a bit deep for some reason. Also, I like the sheath on the alien that gives it short trigger wires. All that being said, they're both great cams. One big plus for the zero is you can place it in very shallow horizontal cracks with no worry. As far as cam stops go, I could care less. Who the hell places a cam passively? And if it walks, I aint trusting the tiny cam stops on a red zero to hold a big whipper. Ok, so I vote aliens. I heard it's a bitch to get em nowadays, which just might make the decision for you.
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dirtineye
Apr 11, 2004, 6:49 PM
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Too soon to tell on durability. I love my zeros, and my friends aliens scare me. The length of the stem and triggers can be an issue though. So far the zeros are holding up well, but who knows how they will be after two years?
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couloir
Apr 11, 2004, 7:17 PM
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As far as durability goes, the zeros are more durable. At least the cam lobes are. They are made out of a harder aluminum which keeps them from wearing down. This isn't a big issue though. It's not like the aliens are going to wear down to where they are no longer usable. But in softer rock it would be better to have the zeros because the teeth don't wear down as fast and will provide more bite. The zeros are slightly wider than the Aliens, but they still set fine in pin scars. You can't go wrong with either.
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mreardon
Apr 12, 2004, 4:39 PM
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I'm pretty sure this was covered and a search might be worth a look. In the meantime, I've been an alien junkie for years now. I tried a couple of the zeros and still found myself using the aliens mostly out of habit and comfort level. Also, the flexible stem is by far the greatest thing for many funky placements when on lead.
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crazyakclimber
Apr 10, 2005, 8:02 PM
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I actually just placed a gear order and decided to buy a full set of zero's. I think i will really like them but I like the aliens too. Do you think I will be happy with them?
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hosh
Apr 10, 2005, 8:12 PM
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crazyakclimber -> You sure seem to like my zeros and aliens... I just had an alien pull on me aid climbing yesterday, it was only a few feet off the ground but still a shocker. Personally, I like my aliens more. The lobes are soft, but they bite the rock well. I've only got the 2 smallest zeros and don't get much use out of them. I'm planning to use crazyakclimber's zeros before he does when they come in, but I think I'll still stick with my aliens...
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crazyakclimber
Apr 10, 2005, 10:43 PM
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yeah! that was nuts! i couldn't believe that your little alien pulled! It's a good thing you where ok and didn't fall into any jagged rocks... otherwise we would have had to drag you out of there and hannah would have been pissed! ;P ... and you know what that means... less the opportunity to go out to the towers!
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one900johnnyk
Apr 10, 2005, 10:50 PM
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to sum up for you, some people like zeros and some people like aliens....
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gunksgoer
Apr 10, 2005, 10:59 PM
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this has been covered alot, but... zeros are much more durable, the cam lobes are made from a harder material wich lasts much longer. a guide ive climbed with a couple times had used his green alien for a while, and when fully retracted, the cam lobes are worn flat :shock:. zeros are also more flexible and have cam stops. that being said, the aliens have longer stem, and the triggers are much easier to hold. the triggers on the 5 and 6 zeros are still pretty good, but i find the triggers on the 3 and 4 zeros to be very small and very finicky. The trigger issue alone is why my 3 and 4 zeros havent seen much action. i personally have both, so when i need to double up in the small sizes i can bring the zeros too, but if i had to choose only 1 set id go with the aliens no question.
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crazyakclimber
Apr 11, 2005, 5:35 AM
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thanks
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tradklime
Apr 11, 2005, 4:37 PM
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In reply to: As far as durability goes, the zeros are more durable. At least the cam lobes are. They are made out of a harder aluminum which keeps them from wearing down. In my opinion this is actually a big plus for the aliens, especially in the smaller sizes. With small cams you are working with a very small surface area. A softer material will deform more under load, creating more surface area contact, and it will "key" into the rock surface better. These are important points in my opinion. More surface area contact is better and the coefficient of friction is not constant when the material deforms. I think its a fine compromise for my cams to be less durable and replace them(which I have yet to need to), and have them more likely to hold a fall, than to have them be more durable.
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jumpingrock
Apr 11, 2005, 5:40 PM
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I had a chance to use both this past weekend, and my review is as such: I have big fingers and the smaller zeros have SMALL triggers. I found them uncomfortable to use. The bigger triggers on the aliens are really nice. On the other hand, I own the aliens so my review may be biased.
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iamthewallress
Apr 11, 2005, 5:47 PM
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Do you folks really have a problem with cam lobe durability? I'm still using my bf's first generation Aliens that have been used on probably thousands of pitches including hundreds of aid pitches, and they seem fine to me? WC might be burlier, but the aliens have always seemed burly enough.
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atropine
Apr 11, 2005, 6:31 PM
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If you read the WC cam book it says that Zeros should be placed as shallow as possible so that you can get a real good look at the placement - this makes good sense as the difference between bomber & whipper can be less than 1mm with the smallest ones. Getting to the point, this is probably why Zeros have short stems. Anywhay i'm kind of over small cams & have started drooling over Valley Giants...
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jimdavis
Apr 11, 2005, 10:00 PM
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In reply to: I actually just placed a gear order and decided to buy a full set of zero's. I think i will really like them but I like the aliens too. Do you think I will be happy with them? Holy crap! :shock: You brought this one back after a year!!! I don't even remember starting this thread... :D I'va had a few chances to play with both. I really can't get into the Zero's. I ended up getting Metolius PowerCams down to a 0. If I was gonna buy anther set today, in order of preference it'd be : Aliens, then TCU's, then FCU's, then Zero's. Aliens bite better, I like the triggers much more than the Zero's, ect. If I was gonna do some Aid though, I'd want a set of Zero's because of their axle/ placement possibilities. (in addition to other small cams, of course) Cheers, Jim
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sspssp
Apr 16, 2005, 8:38 PM
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In reply to: Do you folks really have a problem with cam lobe durability? I'm still using my bf's first generation Aliens that have been used on probably thousands of pitches including hundreds of aid pitches, and they seem fine to me? WC might be burlier, but the aliens have always seemed burly enough. Hundreds of aid pitches and the cams on your Aliens aren't mangled? Wow, what's your secret? It sure doesn't take me that many Yosemite aid pitches to develop flat spots. For aid climbing, I wish the Aliens used harder metal. For free climbing, the softer cams are probably slightly less likely to rip out.
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stymingersfink
Apr 16, 2005, 10:12 PM
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I spoke with Dave at CCH the other day, regarding some cam maintenence. I was looking at having the rubber/vinyl -ish tubing at the clip-in point replaced on some Aliens I aquired last summer. They had been bounce-tested enough times to wear a hole in the tubing. He informed me that it is possible to completely rebuild the cam, and that with some re-builds, the only original part on the re-built cam will be the axle. You would have to call CCH and discuss the particulars of having this service performed, but what other cam manufacturer would even THINK of offering such a service? So, now I have added to the aquired aliens a double set of hybrids. Love 'em, wouldn't aid climb without them. Fact is, I never seem to be able to leave one behind as pro. I mean, can you just see yourself standing on a black/blue placement, looking at another placement where only a blue/black will prevent the need to nail, and realizing you left it four placements below you? A buddy of mine put it best i think, when he reported doing the NA wall and using the hell out of the hybrids, but arriving at every belay with the entire set. Something about the petite features of the zero cams makes me rather dis-interested in them. Sty
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csgambill
Apr 16, 2005, 11:20 PM
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In reply to: this has been covered alot, but... zeros are also more flexible and have cam stops. Every Alien, orange or larger has cam stops, not sure about the size immediately below that. Wouldn't trust them to hold a fall. Wouldn't place a cam passively anyway. Love my Aliens.
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gunksgoer
Apr 17, 2005, 12:29 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: this has been covered alot, but... zeros are also more flexible and have cam stops. Every Alien, orange or larger has cam stops, not sure about the size immediately below that. Wouldn't trust them to hold a fall. Wouldn't place a cam passively anyway. Love my Aliens. every alien orange or larger is only orange purple and clear, and their cam stops arnt full strength. the 6 smaller sizes dont have any cam stops at all. dont get me wrong tho, I lOVE my aliens :D wouldnt leave the ground without em.
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iamthewallress
Apr 18, 2005, 5:06 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Do you folks really have a problem with cam lobe durability? I'm still using my bf's first generation Aliens that have been used on probably thousands of pitches including hundreds of aid pitches, and they seem fine to me? WC might be burlier, but the aliens have always seemed burly enough. Hundreds of aid pitches and the cams on your Aliens aren't mangled? Wow, what's your secret? It sure doesn't take me that many Yosemite aid pitches to develop flat spots. I guess my secret is not worrying about those flat spots and nicks. The blue is probably a bit smaller than it used to be, but it still works just fine. The slings and trigger wires have been replaced.
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