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bigdrop
Apr 12, 2004, 7:35 PM
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:?: Where does your dog sleep when you camp in the backcountry :?:
If you are in a rush, a simple answer would be much appreciated, but if you have time, please read on for some background info, perhaps you have been in a similar situation and can offer some insight.
Last fall (’03) my girlfriend and I adopted an abandoned and abused little puppy. He can be a terror at times, but his behavior is improving. Tag (that’s his name) is full grown now and weighs about 24 lbs, he isn’t a big dog by any means but what he lacks in size he more then makes up for in energy and effort.
With summer approaching we are trying to decide how to introduce Tag to the wonderful world of camping. Nether of us have ever camped in the backcountry with a dog before and so we have a few questions.
Our main problem is figuring out where to let him sleep. Tag appears to suffer from sever separation anxiety. When left alone he cries, panics and chews. At home Tag sleeps on the main floor of our house in his crate. It took him a few weeks to get used to sleeping alone in the house but he is perfectly fine with the idea now.
For camping, especially backcountry, bringing his crate is certainly not an option.
So it seems we are left with the following areas for Tag to sleep:
1- In the tent (there is enough room at our feet):
2- Under the tent fly
3- Outside the fly
4- (Do you know of another option?)
1- If he sleeps in the tent we are concerned with:
-His paws wearing away at the tent floor (water proofing), not from digging but just from normal behavior.
-The level of condensation in the morning (stinky dog breath dew drops).
2- If he sleeps under the fly we are concerned with:
-Him trying to get into the tent so he can sleep with us
-Trying to escape the fly to get outside
-His exposure to the elements, (no ground cover)
3- If he sleeps outside the fly we are concerned with:
-His direct exposure to the elements
-His exposure to other animals (skunks and porcupines)
-Him trying to get into the tent to be with us
-Him wandering off (not really sure if that will be an issue)
Know I now we will likely have to experiment, but as most dog owners will attest, its much easier when you get things right the first time.
Also if you have any other comments or suggestions we would love to hear them!
Thanks
~jc
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olderic
Apr 12, 2004, 8:03 PM
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I am not an expert but I'll relate a few anecdotes from our experieces. We've had "Flash" from puppyhood and she was raised in a loving household with my 3 kids (10-14 when we got her). So she had no traumatic background which probably simplifies things. Also she is a big (~90 pounds) strong mixed breed who tends to run "hot" (any temperature over 55 degrees gets her headed for the shade) so I am not that worried about sheltering her from the elements. She seems to have a good sense of direction so even when we set up at a new spot she isn't likely to get lost (despite my wife's constant fears) but she will poke around a lot.
So in general I just let her stay outside the tent at night. When we first go to bed I generally open the door and try and coax her in. I have her pad (which she carries down by our feet). Usually she will come in for a minute and sniff around but very seldom wants to stay and gets a bit frantic trying to get out. So typically she and the pad are thrown out of the tent for the night and everyone is happy. i think she would let us know if she wanted in. Now the tent I am using for this is a relatively cheap dome tent - if I had a better one I'd be more reluctant to let her in at all - ditto with the sleeping bags - her paws are going to be muddy and I wouldn't want to do this with a good down bag.
A couple of incidents have occurred. Two skunk encounters - she lost both by a mile. Once when we were car camping at a regular commercial CG she was in the big family tent with the kids. They had the screen door shut but not the nylon one. At dawn Flash saw something out the screen and just a couple of sctraches from her big paws shredded the sceen (duct tape to the rescue). Another time my son and I were camping with her in the late fall and it got cold (~10F) - I put an old hooded sweat shirt on her and made sure she was in the tent. In the middle of the night I could feel her shivering and the next thing I knew she had bulldozed me off my (much thicker) pad and had anchored herself on it with her nose under my bag. There was no moving her for the rest of the night.
So I have been lucky having a big easy going dog but it has been fun. i think you should be prepared to let your dog sleep where it wants and have plenty of mud wiping implements at the ready..
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outdoorsie
Apr 12, 2004, 8:08 PM
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Hmm, you know, I've been camping and climbing around for 3 years now, and I don't know anybody who's dog sleeps outside their tent... Just about everybody I know with a dog, weighing from 10 to 90 lbs, keeps their pets in the tent (or, I guess, in the car with them if sleeping in the car) at night.
In my own experience, I have a 55 lb border collie mix who goes camping with us every where. In the tent, she gets a heavy blanket and sleeps at our feet. At night before we go to bed, we tie a 15-ft cord to a tree next to the tent, so in the morning when she wants to get up at the crack of dawn and we don't, we can just lean over, clip her into the cord and let her out of the tent. The only problem is you will get more dog hair in your tent than you ever knew possible. And if you're one of those manic people about not getting dirt in the tent... forget it. give up. you'll never win. But we've not had problems with extra condensation or with her hurting the floor of the tent.
You'll definately want to introduce the dog to the tent before you go out the first time though. The first night our dog spent in the tent, she *was not* happy. "Why are you putting me in this big bag thing? This place smells weird! I can hear strange noises out side!!" I'm sure were all going through my puppy's head all night long... which is why she wouldn't lay down - arg! By our second trip, though, the whole tent thing was no big deal, and now she wants to go to bed before we do, she paws at the tent to get us to let her in at night.
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mrmons
Apr 12, 2004, 8:33 PM
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We keep our 95lbs, 7 month old Bernease Mountain Dog in the tent with us. As long as he's near us, all he wants to do is sleep. However, if someone (or something) comes too close to the tent, he lets out his "big boy"bark which kind of sounds like a bear growl. That usually signals anyone out side the tent that there's a big dog inside and "you ain't comin' in!" In reality, he's a big goof and only wants to lick everyone to death. It's a nice tent alarm to have! :D
Mr. Mons :twisted:
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cragmaster
Apr 12, 2004, 8:36 PM
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I always let "brisko" sleep outside. He likes the fresh air and lets me know when there is an intruder in the campsite, whether it be an animal or a person. When I sleep, he won't run off unless he is chasing an animal or something, but like most dogs, he will return. Brisko at home always likes to sleep with people, but doesn't mind being outside the tent while camping.
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monstertruckmike
Apr 12, 2004, 8:43 PM
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My pup has already been on several camp trips to the Red with me. She stays inside with me (and my gf is she comes).
1. Bring a blankie or whatever he sleeps on so he has a familiar "sleep time" smell.
2. Get a smaller thermarest, or the doggy one for him to sleep on
3. If your tent has windows, leave them open for better ventilation
Since he has never been camping with you, maybe try setting the tent up in your living room, and "camp" there with him for a night.
(not really a sleeping solution, but a doggy solution)
My favorite tip that I learned for taking a dog with you is if you wanna leave him outside get some extra rope, a cordalette will do, and tie it between 2 trees. Then take a 'biner and clip it to his leash. Then clip it to the rope, and he is free to run around on a lot of space.
just my 2 cents
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dano
Apr 12, 2004, 8:44 PM
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Twin 70 lb pit mixes.
First went camping with us at the age of 8 months, and have always shared the tent. Of course, now it's a much BIGGER 3 person tent. They have their own thermarest, and if it's cold we throw a blanket down and a fleece on top since they really do get cold.
in the morning they head out the same time as us, though at night we'll usually rig up a long cord between two trees or such to define a 'run'. during the day they always stay in sight.
and their morning breath is no worse than mine...
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trbrts
Apr 12, 2004, 9:05 PM
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Out in the wilds the dog sleeps in the tent. She weighs about 40 lbs. In the morning when all the birds are waking up, she is very intriqued. So, if I want to sleep in I generally just let her run around for a while before I get up.
If we are car camping, I generally just have her sleep in the truck so we can have the tent to ourselves.
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skycat
Apr 12, 2004, 9:22 PM
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Fox is a German Shepard/Blue Heeler mix and she came from the pound as a puppy and was a handful also. She is 50 lbs and a nice portable size for hiking and such.
Some things that worked great for the trail when she was younger, now that she is 10 she doesn't waste her energy on chasing things.
1) She behaves much better when carrying a pack, all it has is some treats, water and her blanket.
2) I made a special bed roll for her, that is thin, durable, and light weight. We have a 2 man tent and laying this over our mats keeps the mats and the floors clean.
http://www.jumpergirl.com/pics/foxmem1.jpg
The cat is laying on the dog mat
http://www.jumpergirl.com/pics/foxpack.jpg
Fox with her pack on.
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leaverbiner
Apr 12, 2004, 9:27 PM
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In reply to: and their morning breath is no worse than mine...
Ain't that the truth!!! In fact it is probably being a bit kind!!!!
Say hi to Icho and Sachi for me Dan!!
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j_ung
Apr 12, 2004, 9:37 PM
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I have a small dog (20#) who sleeps in the tent with no trouble. If you want to try the vestibule thing, get a dog stake and pound it into the ground next to your tent opening. Attach your dog to that with a small leash. I've never had trouble with her claws on the tent floor. Trim your dog's nails! :P
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Apr 12, 2004, 10:11 PM
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I have a similar dog. :) 42 lbs but strong & energetic!!! Also an adopted stray. I would recommend letting the dog sleep in the tent. Maybe you can put a tarp down on floor to protect your tent. A dog like this will definately freak if left to sleep outside knowing it's owners are in the tent. It will hear the same strange noises from inside the tent, but it probably won't bark or whine as much because it will feel safe w/ you two. I also think there are too many dangers outside and you can't watch him while you're sleeping in the tent. It's just not worth it. I mean, if the tent gets ripped, you'll be pissed, sure, but what if you left the dog outside & it got injured or worse?
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plund
Apr 12, 2004, 10:44 PM
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I saw a cool pop-up type dome tent especially for dogs...think it was about 30 bucks...but can't remember where (Cabela's or REI catalog??)...would probably be sweet if furnished with pup's favorite blankey for the comfy smell...
But what do I know I have two cats.....
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bsignorelli
Apr 12, 2004, 10:50 PM
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Why does this not sound like a pleasant idea for the other campers? :)
In reply to: He can be a terror at times
In reply to: what he lacks in size he more then makes up for in energy and effort.
In reply to: appears to suffer from sever separation anxiety. When left alone he cries, panics and chews.
Anyways...like others have said...let the dog sleep in the tent. That way he's more your problem instead of everyone else's problem.
I have had several friends that backpack with their dogs. Lets just say that some dogs are meant to camp...others aren't.
While you are training your dog to camp with you, get him used to being around other people and other dogs. That way he isn't a running, slobbering, barking mass when camping time comes.
If he doesn't listen to you 100% of the time then don't take him off leash. No one likes to have a dog get in their tent or truck or whatever and no one's child likes to have a "big doggie" run at them and then jump all over them.
Anyways...just be responsible and think of the other people you'll be sharing the enviroment with.
Thanks!
Bryan
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climbsomething
Apr 12, 2004, 11:03 PM
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I have a 35-pound ball-of-energy Husky. Once in a while, I bring her camping and climbing, although out of respect for other climbers who may not want a hyperactive, wolf-looking dog at the crags, especially crowded bases, I leave her at home most of the time (but that's another thread entirely, so don't hijack)
Anyway, this is based on my experience with a very energetic and loving but independent dog:
Tilly likes her space. She won't come into my house, because it's not "her den." She likes her den outside, under a tree or in a pit she's dug out of the dirt. And I can't even cajole her into the house with jerky when it's 25 degrees and raining. She won't budge. Quirky little girl, but it fits with the profile of the breed.
She's small enough to fit in a tent but I learned early on that she just doesn't want to be there and will chew through the mesh inner door to get out :roll: so I long ago gave up on keeping her in the tent since she doesn't like it.
Huskies are independent and are pretty resilient to the elements, but they're also roamers and chewers, especially when they're bored, which happens easily, and I can't well entertain her in my sleep. Thus, I have a huge tie-out chain (about 15, 20 feet, small, light links) that I hitch around a tree. I make sure it's close to the tent so she knows I haven't abandoned her (even her independent spirit would think that rude) and voila, I sleep in my tent, Tils sleeps in the dirt. I do not use any kind of soft nylon leash cos she can chomp through that like a Twinkie. A metal one is tooth-proof and making it that long lets her investigate any little critters or funny smells in her little area.
She really does enjoy the outdoors so sometimes, very judiciously, I let her come out and play. But she needs rules, just like any other rambunctious kid :P But she's pretty good at following at least my camping/hiking rules for her.
Lots of rambling for a simple solution- big chain leash + tree = Tilly goes camping with Hillary.
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opusxxii
Apr 12, 2004, 11:54 PM
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I imagine your dogs all must be really pampered. Any dog I've ever had stays outside (my mom is a complete neatfreak; there's no way she'd let a dog inside)... so if we were going camping I'd just tie him to a tree or something. Give him enough room to run around, but sleep in the tent.
Any pet we have adheres to these rules (cept for my brothers fish...), their benefit. I guess that's just what happens when you live in the sticks.
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bigdrop
Apr 13, 2004, 12:19 AM
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Thanks everyone for sharing your experiences (PLEASE KEEP THEM COMING).
It would seem that my concerns about having Tag sleep in my tent where unmerited, which is encouraging because I think it’s the safest place for him to be.
I really like the idea of tying a runner at the site and leaving a leader by the tent entrance, so thanks to those that mentioned that.
We are also going to pitch the tent in the living room (we don’t have a backyard at this house) and have a few "test nights".
I’m interested in getting a pack for Tag so if any of you have had experience with this please share your thoughts.
Bryan, at first your post pissed me off. It offended me because of its presumptions. But then I read it again and it made me laugh. What you quoted from me could have just as easily been written about a child. Do kids have no business camping either? Maybe your comments would be more appreciated, in a more relevant thread; may I suggest the “My narrow mindedness has consumed me” thread?
Anyway, thanks again everyone. This summer will surely bring many new experiences and to that I look very forward.
~jc
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bsignorelli
Apr 13, 2004, 12:48 AM
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In reply to: Bryan, at first your post pissed me off. It offended me because of its presumptions. But then I read it again and it made me laugh. What you quoted from me could have just as easily been written about a child. Do kids have no business camping either? Maybe your comments would be more appreciated, in a more relevant thread; may I suggest the ?My narrow mindedness has consumed me? thread?
Bring it on byotch!!!!!!!1
j/k :) :)
No presumptions. Just experiences.
Like I said...I have had friends bring their dogs backpacking. Only one of those dogs was great on the trip and many trips were shared with him (Lucky Dog). The others...they all left a bit to be desired.
And yes...to egg you on and continue this game...I think children belong camping about as much as dogs do.
If the child is well behaved, doesn't cry all night long, doesn't whine all day long, doesn't piss on my rope, doesn't eat my food, doesn't punch me in the balls . . . then bring him along.
I mean...you don't take a baby to an opera when he can't sit quiet for hours on end. So don't take dogs or kids into the woods if they will disturb other people.
If you think this is a hard line to take then I'm sorry but I do feel I have more of a right to enjoy my trip than you have to spend time with Fluffy.
Bryan
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outdoorsie
Apr 13, 2004, 3:07 PM
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In reply to: I imagine your dogs all must be really pampered.
Yeah, my dog is spoiled rotten. But I guess that's what you get with two people, no kids, and too much time on our hands: a lot of camping, climbing, hiking, and one spoiled dog.
On a side note, we tried putting a pack on poor Liv last weekend and she hated every second of it. Gave us some sad looks... "Why are you doing this to me??" She also tended to run into trees and rocks with them. By the second day she had figured out how to get it off, and we ended up carrying it more than she did.
It was nice to have her carry her own darn water and bowl, though. I think we're going to keep trying.
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piep
Apr 13, 2004, 4:07 PM
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In the tent is the only way to go, for the dog's sake and as a courtesy for others around you. Especially when they have sep. anxiety. Woody, our abused rescue dog, will have it no other way and we all 3 sleepbetter with him in the tent.
Enjoy! (just make sure he's not wandering around the crag -- poor ettiquitte for others around you and safer for the dog!)
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skycat
Apr 13, 2004, 5:54 PM
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In reply to: I’m interested in getting a pack for Tag so if any of you have had experience with this please share your thoughts. ~jc
I have a wolf pack trecker it's 8 years old and still in great shape. It has probably logged a couple hundred miles and quit a few off leash adventures which means rubbing and bumping into things.
You will want to start with taking the dog for walks with just the pack on and nothing inside. Once they are used to it, start adding light stuff like treats, and then work up to water. A rule of thumb is that your dog shouldn't carry more than 1/3rd it's weight.
I know for fox if she feels like she is working she is much better behaved and less likely to run off and chase squirls.
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overlord
Apr 13, 2004, 6:02 PM
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Looks more like a cat mat to me :lol: just look at the cats facial expression. the poor dog will NEVER sleep on that mat. :twisted:
my suggestion (from my limited experience with my ex gf 40+kg (80pounds???) giant (that means hes really big) schnauzer on one camping trip) is to let him sleep inside (and use a mat) but be prepared for some interuptions and nocturnal expeditions. if he gets to bothersome just kick him out.
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mountainmadness
Apr 13, 2004, 7:40 PM
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DOGS have no place in the outdoors for so many reasons ranging from ecological impact to they are just damn annoying to other people around you. When I was at the BLM winter camp ground in Bishop,it was almost like a damn dog park. Every freakin dog sniffin around my camp site and pissing on every rock and bush etc...I have a big beautiful german shepard at home in my big back yard. I take him to dog parks that are deemed so. I love him with all my Heart. He gets the best care and the most affection. BUT he does not belong where he does not BELONG. All these damn fools who take there mutts out there think they are so damn close and so cool by taking there mangy animals out there need to get a clue.
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boulderman
Apr 13, 2004, 8:37 PM
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In reply to: mountainmadness: DOGS have no place in the outdoors
That comment is a bit crazy... but whatever :roll: . There is always one Kook in the crowd! Dogs are meant to be companions for the outdoors. I do agree that owners do have responsibility to keep their dogs under control. Keep the dog in the tent, for ecological and safety reasons. Dog safety and human safety. As climbers we hang around rocks and dogs can fall too. You don't want them walking off the edge of a cliff while roaming at night.
I have a 120lb. Newfoundland who enjoys backpacking. I always keep her in the tent. I have a 2 man and my girlfriend is usually with me too. So if I can keep 2 people and wet muddy 120 lb dog in my tent anyone can keep their dog in the tent.
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pico23
Jun 10, 2006, 4:10 AM
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In reply to: :?: Where does your dog sleep when you camp in the backcountry :?: If you are in a rush, a simple answer would be much appreciated, but if you have time, please read on for some background info, perhaps you have been in a similar situation and can offer some insight. Last fall (’03) my girlfriend and I adopted an abandoned and abused little puppy. He can be a terror at times, but his behavior is improving. Tag (that’s his name) is full grown now and weighs about 24 lbs, he isn’t a big dog by any means but what he lacks in size he more then makes up for in energy and effort. With summer approaching we are trying to decide how to introduce Tag to the wonderful world of camping. Nether of us have ever camped in the backcountry with a dog before and so we have a few questions. Our main problem is figuring out where to let him sleep. Tag appears to suffer from sever separation anxiety. When left alone he cries, panics and chews. At home Tag sleeps on the main floor of our house in his crate. It took him a few weeks to get used to sleeping alone in the house but he is perfectly fine with the idea now. For camping, especially backcountry, bringing his crate is certainly not an option. So it seems we are left with the following areas for Tag to sleep: 1- In the tent (there is enough room at our feet): 2- Under the tent fly 3- Outside the fly 4- (Do you know of another option?) 1- If he sleeps in the tent we are concerned with: -His paws wearing away at the tent floor (water proofing), not from digging but just from normal behavior.
-The level of condensation in the morning (stinky dog breath dew drops). 2- If he sleeps under the fly we are concerned with: -Him trying to get into the tent so he can sleep with us
-Trying to escape the fly to get outside
-His exposure to the elements, (no ground cover) 3- If he sleeps outside the fly we are concerned with: -His direct exposure to the elements
-His exposure to other animals (skunks and porcupines)
-Him trying to get into the tent to be with us
-Him wandering off (not really sure if that will be an issue) Know I now we will likely have to experiment, but as most dog owners will attest, its much easier when you get things right the first time. Also if you have any other comments or suggestions we would love to hear them! Thanks ~jc
Old thread revival of the day. But this seems to be the last of the dog threads on the list not revived.
As I prepare for another wet day, my dog will certainly be wet.
I let him sleep in the tent. Even my little one man tent when it is just he and I. It's wet and soggy with a wet shaggy border collie in the tent but beats the alternative of hiking with some ungrateful human. The one man tent is a little iffy because he ends up with most of the space. No problems with 2 people in a 2 man though.
Smell wise, wet dog is the nastiest smell till you get used to it. Doesn't bother me anymore and honestly after a few days on the trail my breath and BO are worse then his.
I guess i was lucky because I got my dog at 4 months and we slept with him in a tent for the first week. He had a pack on him by 5 mos. And then we started adding stuff to it by his first long distance trip (3 days 30 miles). At the start of the trip he had no confidence and wouldn't swim or cross streams on rocks. By the end he was having such a good time and loved swimming and crossing streams.
I've never had a problem with the tent floor. But if possible (like when canoe treking) I put a plastic sheet under him. Doesn't need a pad except in winter because he ends up sleeping between mine and my wifes feet on the pads or on my empty pack (he doesn't prefer the pack). there will be a pile of twigs and leaves in the tent. I'm a neat freak with my gear and this was hard at first but I learned to deal with it.
Don't buy a nice down sleeping bag unless it's for definite below freezing winter snow weather. Your dog WILL get your bags wet and muddy. It's not a big deal. just dry em out. a small pack towel helps if he's really wet and i feel like carrying it (or sneaking it into his pack). polyfil (anything not down) only last a year or two of real use anyway. so just deal with the wetness and wash the bag every now and then. Over the summer I usually use a fleece bag anyway and these are easy to clean and last forever.
i just let him out of the tent in the morning when he wants out. if he wants back in he comes over and pokes his nose at the door, if not, he just lays around or explores. He's loyal and would never run off. Always keeps us in sight. This might not be a good idea for all dogs.
The only issue he has with people is 1) if you come into his campsite. He'll puff (sort of like a muted bark) but once I tell him no he's fine, the tentsite is his home and he treats it as such 2) he begs for food at lean-to's and/or might end up sleeping on someone elses feet. This obviously can be an issue if you are sharing a lean-to with a dog hater but most people wake up in the morning and say, " your dog slept on my feet last night" me: i'm sorry, "but he kept my feet toasty so it was nice". No one likes the begging though, not even me.
But look at it like this, he begs and you banter about stuff no one else in the lean-to including him wants to hear.
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