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paintrain
Apr 12, 2004, 9:11 PM
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I think mentoring goes beyond just pointing out something to a passerby (putting your arm around them and all that - your crotchety poeticness cracks me up). It is actually climbing with them - lead by example and all that.
Yes - climbing is dangerous. Gravity will always win. You are right. Youth have a feeling of immortality cause they haven't experienced it. Part of growing up. Telling a 19year old that they don't know everything won't get you anywhere. Problem might be they might never have heard of the AAJ let alone seen the accident reports.
Good hashing. I'm spent. I am going to go burn some incense, hug my fellow man, have a vegan burrito, align my chacras, see the world in a grain of sand, and get a warm fuzzy over it all.
PT
ps. Went to the gym after dark one night to teach some self rescue stuff to my wife. They wouldn't let us cause it is like climbing outdoors and they can't promote anything or allow us to practice anything that resembles it for fear of liability - fag-fest.
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ipsofacto
Apr 12, 2004, 9:12 PM
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23456789
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holmeslovesguinness
Apr 12, 2004, 9:20 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: " Tell me about your troubles, my dear noobish friend, and I will open your eyes to the rich, variegated landscape that is climbing." "It is a land of moonbeams and marmelade, so take my hand, comrade, because we shall make the journey together!"
Yup :lol: :lol: :lol:
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very
Apr 12, 2004, 9:20 PM
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i think ipso is a noob sport climber-
how come the dude's bagging on newbies only have single pitch sport climbs on their resume?
at least lie and say you have done something to elevate yourself above the noob-
how's that for a vitae on your forehead-
have you ever done monkey face at smith? free or aid?
do that and you are not a noob-
you dont have to climb hard to not be a noob. A buddy of mine could tr 12's but couldnt find his ass if you asked him to equalize an anchor.
After a summer in the valley, he could get up anything, and climb hard, and he was someone to count on 15 pitches up when a storm hits. Thats what learning, and teaching noobs is all about.
You become not a noob when you are not an ass and dont gloat about your own superiority, and help others advance to not noob status. But this whole thread is really about why you climb and who you climb for.
I climb to share with a community of pretty cool folks, not alienate people who could use getting thrown out of their 9 to 5 lifestyle and get away from the xbox for a while.
Leave no trace
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j_ung
Apr 12, 2004, 9:51 PM
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I suppose it's mostly considerate to offer up some friendly, non-condescending advice to those in need at the crag. But, like the group described in this post, sometimes your advice will fall on def ears. In those cases, I find it best to either leave the area or just sit back and watch the epic unfold. Take notes, as you may have to relate the saga to William Shatner on the Rescue 911 X-mas special.
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seabee
Apr 12, 2004, 10:26 PM
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In reply to: lots of big talkers. behind your computer. talk real big.
In reply to: some people take kindly to being b itched around. Some people learn that way. I don't.
Is it just me, or does this guy write in haiku?
Noob wishes to climb
makes dumb errors, dies early
should have told him so
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kman
Apr 12, 2004, 10:47 PM
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In reply to: Is it just me, or does this guy write in haiku? Noob wishes to climb makes dumb errors, dies early should have told him so
:lol: classic
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jakewolf
Apr 12, 2004, 11:16 PM
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Don't want to piss people off, but the crags are crowded. If you want remote solitude climb in the desert or at areas with long approaches. As for lines on climbs, if you are so experienced maybe you should climb something harder and let the newbies have some easy routes. There is not ussually anyone on climbs with harder grades or with an runout. Again no offense but you are at a crag on an easy route, that is like going to a gym and being mad because other people are working out. And as far as newbies go- there is always someone who can teach you a thing or too, so everyone is a newbie in certain company.
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raindog
Apr 13, 2004, 12:22 AM
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In reply to: Tweedle Dee is grief stricken and gives up climbing. He sells his gear on Ebay for more than retail and uses the money to buy an X-Box from Wal-Mart. -Jeff
Hey man, I looked on Ebay and I cant find his gear, come clean, tell the truth, you made it up didn't you :cry: :cry:
Maybe you were on a climbing trip and didn't see it. It was just a gri gri, a rope, and some runners anyway.
The story is true! Honest! I didn't even change the names of the people! I hope they don't sue me.
-Jeff
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keithlester
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Apr 13, 2004, 4:34 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Tweedle Dee is grief stricken and gives up climbing. He sells his gear on Ebay for more than retail and uses the money to buy an X-Box from Wal-Mart. -Jeff Hey man, I looked on Ebay and I cant find his gear, come clean, tell the truth, you made it up didn't you :cry: :cry:
Maybe you were on a climbing trip and didn't see it. It was just a gri gri, a rope, and some runners anyway.
The story is true! Honest! I didn't even change the names of the people! I hope they don't sue me.
-Jeff
Hey Jeff, they wont sue you, its me who's going to have to sue for the disappointment and grief of going on Ebay and not finding Tweedledums gear. I'm devastated :cry: :cry:
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itakealot
Apr 13, 2004, 8:02 AM
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In reply to: You have no place to tell people that they shouldn't climb in "your" area. Yes, you do need to be worried about your own safety, and yes, you should look out for fellow climbers, but to tell someone that they don't belong at a crag because they are loud or inexperienced is simply unacceptable. I have seen numerous veteran climbers cause far greater problems by using mank gear or bringing their slobbering crag dog everywhere.
Hey Brah, you got beef? It is a free country and we can climb where we want. Newbs can climb where they want and I can care less about it. I don't recall anywhere in my post that I didn't want newbies to climb at "my area." I didn't realize that I owned Malibu Creek either so how could it be my crag. Please don't read into my post that I am a jerk, but being in LA I will admit to being shallow and narcisitic.
Anyone who does not like a slobbering crag dog...
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itakealot
Apr 13, 2004, 8:14 AM
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In reply to: I'm with you, man, that's why we trad over here, stick your rules up your a** and leave me in peace.
I thought another name for trad climbers was the "ethics police." I have read more opinions on the "rules" from trad climbers on RC.com than from any other climbers. Again, I don't think there is anything in my post pointed at Scottish Trad Climbers so peace out Bruddah.
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itakealot
Apr 13, 2004, 8:33 AM
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In reply to: 4) So, were I a newbie, am I to understand that it’s okay to climbed roped up on sandstone after a month of rain, but not free solo? Sorry, I’m gonna have to think about that one for a looonnngg while, ‘cause it just doesn’t make sense. 5) How exactly is giving a lead belay clinic different at granite/plastic places than at sandstone? That’s another yooge leap in logic. And please don’t suggest that there’s no rock fall with granite.
All rock can break off, like the Apron a while ago, but softer rock is more prone to becoming manky and breaking. I haven't been to Quebec to climb so I can not say anything about the rock there, but I have been climbing in So Cal for over 10 years and have come very familiar with the local sandstone conglomerate. I have seen 5 star granite break off in my hand, but damp sandstone is brittle and manky.
So, giving a lead belay clinic to a neophyte whose main reaction to falling rock might be to let go of the rope and jump back, is not a good idea and highly illogical.
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roughster
Apr 13, 2004, 8:49 AM
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In reply to: ...I have been climbing in So Cal for over 10 years and have come very familiar with the local sandstone conglomerate. I have seen 5 star granite break off in my hand, but damp sandstone is brittle and manky.
Mike not to piss on your parade or post, but after 10 years you would think you would recognize volcanic breccia from sandstone conglomerate then :lol:
Devil's Punchbowl is Conglomerate Sandstone
Malibu is Volcanic Breccia.
They can easily be confused especially considering that Breccia is basically a matrix of tuff with various size mixed pieces of harder volcanic rock mixed in. So in essence it is a conglomerate, just specifically with solidified and compressed ash as the holding matrix versus sandstone for a "true" conglomerate.
Anyways, please continue on with newbie spanking :righton:
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itakealot
Apr 13, 2004, 9:06 AM
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oops, the rock at the punchbowl seems a lot more solid, but there are veins of mank that crumble to the touch, like the climb way over to the right on the attitude wall with the beuhlers.
Brecchia, sounds like "break," which proves my point even more. :twisted:
I shoulda read my geology 101 textbook.
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keithlester
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Apr 13, 2004, 12:21 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: I'm with you, man, that's why we trad over here, stick your rules up your a** and leave me in peace. I thought another name for trad climbers was the "ethics police." I have read more opinions on the "rules" from trad climbers on RC.com than from any other climbers. Again, I don't think there is anything in my post pointed at Scottish Trad Climbers so peace out Bruddah.
Peace to you Bro. I think the style nazi version of trad climbers is in the minority, certainly this side of the pond. Only trouble is, like all bigoted minorities they seem to shout the loudest. The best way to deal with them is by being disarmingly friendly, which is, lets face it man's (or woman's) natural state. :robert:
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cratercreator
Apr 13, 2004, 3:31 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: lots of big talkers. behind your computer. talk real big. In reply to: some people take kindly to being b itched around. Some people learn that way. I don't. Is it just me, or does this guy write in haiku? Noob wishes to climb makes dumb errors, dies early should have told him so
maybe you could be there.
scrape my body off the floor.
say I told you so.
only I won't be listening.
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seabee
Apr 13, 2004, 3:57 PM
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In reply to: maybe you could be there. scrape my body off the floor. say I told you so. only I won't be listening.
C'mon, man, try to stick with the 5-7-5 format! There's only so much tolerance out there for free verse!
Cratercreator
chose a good name for himself
lived too fast, died young
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phyre
Apr 13, 2004, 3:57 PM
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I agree that there are a lot of newbies out there doing stupid stuff and they should take your advice about being respectful. However I would also say that people who were willing to give me some advice or beta when I was new to the outdoors was one of the reasons I became a climber. If people had just been "grumpy" and yelled at me for doing stupid stuff I probably would have thought climbers were jerks and maybe stopped climbing.
Also, at my local climbing area there were areas that had a lot of beginner and intermediate routes which attracted a lot of people. Then there were other areas that had all 5.11 and up. I'm not sure how this compares to the place you were climbing but I always felt that if you are in a beginner area you should expect big groups of people who aren't very experieced. If you want solitude climb 5.13. I'd be interested to hear what others think of big groups in there local areas too.
Tim
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cratercreator
Apr 13, 2004, 4:20 PM
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In reply to: I agree that there are a lot of newbies out there doing stupid stuff and they should take your advice about being respectful. However I would also say that people who were willing to give me some advice or beta when I was new to the outdoors was one of the reasons I became a climber. If people had just been "grumpy" and yelled at me for doing stupid stuff I probably would have thought climbers were jerks and maybe stopped climbing.
I think that's why there is a number of "veterans" hanging around like buzzards trying to pick apart the psyche of us "noobs".
respect is a twoway street with room for pedestrians
give and take. don't give don't take
also the haiku sh it was a coincidence.
If you want someone to teach, stick to the classroom. I don't have time for these forum junkies that correct others posts.
Ill wear a nice warm jacket in hell after I die
better to have loved and lost than to never have scored at all.
I might die young.
happy.
but I'm not living dead.
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seabee
Apr 13, 2004, 4:31 PM
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In reply to: also the haiku sh it was a coincidence. If you want someone to teach, stick to the classroom. I don't have time for these forum junkies that correct others posts.
Now, it's just that kind of attitude that has ruined modern poetry! It's not that hard:
I'll wear a jacket
In hell, a dead idiot
No time for advice
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cratercreator
Apr 13, 2004, 4:42 PM
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fuck modern poetry
it's all commercial music now.
it's not ya'll "veterans" sport, it's noone's
be selective of who you take advice from
not every one who claims to know does
listen but take it with a grain of salt
be open
if it makes sense use it
I've had enough of you noob bashers
this site has lots of good information hidden between you route hording noob bashing "veterans"
I'm out
too pu ssy to get in a ring?
you should try pickin a fight on a forum, seabee
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cratercreator
Apr 13, 2004, 5:03 PM
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[quote="cratercreator
Ill wear a nice warm jacket in hell after I die
it means I'll wear a jacket for when hell freezes over. That'll be when I die.
just A guess. Hope it don't freeze over tonight though.
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munderwo
Apr 13, 2004, 5:43 PM
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In reply to: f--- modern poetry it's all commercial music now.
The day "Digging" is put to some recyled hip-hop syncopation and Larkin is paid tribute in a P-Diddy remake of Heal the World, that's when, more precisely, contemporary poetry will be dead.
And of course most (all) Modern poets are dead. The sun is hot and Jesus was a juggler. When speaking of literary periods/movements you must be more precise.
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dirtineye
Apr 13, 2004, 5:51 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: I agree that there are a lot of newbies out there doing stupid stuff and they should take your advice about being respectful. However I would also say that people who were willing to give me some advice or beta when I was new to the outdoors was one of the reasons I became a climber. If people had just been "grumpy" and yelled at me for doing stupid stuff I probably would have thought climbers were jerks and maybe stopped climbing. I think that's why there is a number of "veterans" hanging around like buzzards trying to pick apart the psyche of us "noobs". respect is a twoway street with room for pedestrians give and take. don't give don't take also the haiku sh it was a coincidence. If you want someone to teach, stick to the classroom. I don't have time for these forum junkies that correct others posts. Ill wear a nice warm jacket in hell after I die better to have loved and lost than to never have scored at all. I might die young. happy. but I'm not living dead.
When you have carried an injured climber out, then you will understand.
WHen youy have gotten YOUR share of happy go lucky Newbies out of scrapes unharmed, then you will understand.
When you realize that CLIMBIN can be very dangerous and that some people would rather you NOT hurt yourself doing it, then you will understand.
When you have tried to correct seriously unsafe practices and been told to fugg off or mind your own business, or just been ignored by dumbasses determined to tempt fate, then you will understand.
But for now, you do not understand.
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