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Closure of Queen Creek / Oak Flat AZ climbing areas.
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climbingpride


Apr 13, 2004, 11:30 PM
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Re: Closure of Queen Creek / Oak Flat AZ climbing areas. [In reply to]
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A few pages back the article "For Superior, hope lies 7,000 feet below ground", was linked for all of us to read, which I did so myself. But now when i go back and try to find it i can not.

The thing is that i keep finding links for it but the article has been removed from the site, giving me just a phrase saying that this article can no longer be found. I want to find this article because in my english class we are writing a letter to the editor and I figured what better a topic for me then this.

Anyways, I've looked online for a while and can't get anywhere with Max Jarman's March 21, 2004 "For Superior, hope lies 7,000 feet below ground", The Arizona Republic.

I guess i'll be running to the library soon.

*Edit*

So do you know where i could find it online?
And what points do you think would be the stongest to hit in my letter?
I've already taken alot of points from this thread, which could be a good or a bad thing i guess.

Charles Davidson wrote a letter concerning this topic which can be found at the bottom of this page.
http://www.azcentral.com/...404bizletters04.html


curt


Apr 29, 2004, 8:51 PM
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Re: Closure of Queen Creek / Oak Flat AZ climbing areas. [In reply to]
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At the recent Phoenix Boulder Blast, the Access Fund allowed Friends of Queen Creek to distribute flyers in their booth explaining the potential threat to future climbing at Oak Flat. Many thanks to Deanne Buck and the other Access Fund people who were there.

If you would like to stay informed of the ongoing situation regarding any potential Queen Creek / Oak Flat climbing closures, please go to:

http://www.friendsofqueencreek.com

and send Paul Dief your e-mail address. Thanks for your help.

Curt


allarounder


Apr 29, 2004, 9:29 PM
Post #178 of 619 (69813 views)
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Re: Closure of Queen Creek / Oak Flat AZ climbing areas. [In reply to]
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Did they allow Resolution to distrubute information regarding the exploration, development, and potential access issues?

edit: "they" being PBB.


curt


Apr 29, 2004, 10:15 PM
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Re: Closure of Queen Creek / Oak Flat AZ climbing areas. [In reply to]
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In reply to:
Did they allow Resolution to distrubute information regarding the exploration, development, and potential access issues?

edit: "they" being PBB.

Resolution Copper was a sponsor of the 2004 PBB. I suspect they were free to do what you suggest, had they chosen to.

Curt


curt


May 11, 2004, 1:19 AM
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Re: Closure of Queen Creek / Oak Flat AZ climbing areas. [In reply to]
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Update

The Friends of Queen Creek met today with a staff member of United States Representative Rick Renzi, who is a Member of Congress for Arizona's First District. This Congressional District includes Queen Creek and the Oak Flat Campground area.

We were informed by Renzi's office that Resolution Copper Company has been actively lobbying various US Congressmen, including AZ Reps. Renzi and Jim Kolbe of the Eighth District to introduce legislation into Congress that would give the Oak Flat campground land (which is currently off limits to mining) to Resolution Copper, in exchange for other land in Arizona. Apparently, Resolution has engaged a Denver, Colorado firm called the Western Land Group to try and organize this land swap on their behalf.

It was interesting to hear that Resolution's comments to these Congressmen, whom they are asking to sponsor this legislation, included a statement to the effect that "all of the issues related to climbing have been resolved through meetings with the local climbing community." This could not be farther from the truth.

If this "land swap" legislation is successful, the executive order (signed by President Eisenhower and now in force for 50 years) that now protects the Oak Flat campground area from mining activities will be moot, as will the promise by the National Forest Service that a public comment period will have to preceed any mining related change of status for the campground.

In my personal opinion, these tactics on the part of Resolution Copper Company seriously call into question their public statements regarding transparency and honest information exchange with user groups who may be impacted by the new Resolution Copper mine.

If you feel that it is important to preserve future access to the site of the Phoenix BoulderBlast and want to help us, please sign up and join the Friends of Queen Creek today. There is no charge to do so. FOQC is located here:

http://www.friendsofqueencreek.com

We appreciate your help.

Curt


allarounder


May 11, 2004, 2:05 AM
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Re: Closure of Queen Creek / Oak Flat AZ climbing areas. [In reply to]
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xxx


curt


May 11, 2004, 3:27 AM
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In reply to:
I'm curious what the statement implied in "to the effect that "all of the issues related to climbing have been resolved through meetings with the local climbing community." " actually was.

Yes. You and me both.

Curt


ahwatukian


May 11, 2004, 4:51 AM
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Re: Closure of Queen Creek / Oak Flat AZ climbing areas. [In reply to]
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Suckers. See what I told you?

God, I am a prophet!


curt


May 11, 2004, 4:56 AM
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In reply to:
Suckers. See what I told you?

God, I am a prophet!

Details please?

Curt


climbsomething


May 11, 2004, 5:07 AM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
Suckers. See what I told you?

God, I am a prophet!

Details please?

Curt
The plot thickens (?)

*cues dramatic organ music*


alpnclmbr1


May 11, 2004, 5:17 AM
Post #186 of 619 (69813 views)
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Re: Closure of Queen Creek / Oak Flat AZ climbing areas. [In reply to]
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In reply to:
In my personal opinion, these tactics on the part of Resolution Copper Company seriously call into question their public statements regarding transparency and honest information exchange with user groups who may be impacted by the new Resolution Copper mine.

Anyone who finds any of this surprising lives in a dream world.

Companies are only ethical when it lies in their best interest to be so.

You have to find a way to leverage our interests in such a way that it coincides with their interests. The only way I see to get a power base in such a struggle is to fight them tooth and nail and hope that you can force them into some sort of compromise.

Being nice doesn't always play well in a business environment.


ahwatukian


May 11, 2004, 5:54 AM
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Re: Closure of Queen Creek / Oak Flat AZ climbing areas. [In reply to]
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Fair enough.

OK, its not like I told the group that Resolution would roll you over with their good graces and all, but I did alert you to their sponsorship in the Boulder Dash event, which, in itself might have been an indication that they were.

OK, let's think this thing through: Oak Flats area closed to recreactionalists (which we all are, me included, albeit not climbing). What's the difference between an open pit mine decimating the entire area and a block-caving mine that might result in some major ground level subsidence that would forever ruin bouldering in the Oak Creek/Queen Creek area? Did I not mention that the block caving technique at the Kalamazoo ore body in San Manuel (Magma Copper Company, circa late 80's, now BHP) DID exhibit significant surface-level ground subsidence, as can be seen from above? I believe I did. I have seen it via aeroplane. Go take a look, if you so choose.

Sooooo... what I'm getting at is that you kind-of-knew what you were getting into here with Resolution. In their eyes, block-caving is the only option - And they're well on their way to getting public officials to buy off on this. Shaft-and-stope mining is their last option with this ore body and, by God, if they aren't going to do everything they can to prevent that, sans abandoning this project altogether. Which is what I'm guessing this community really wants in the long term, isn't it? :wink:

Am I waaaaaaay off base here, allrounder? Should I shut up out of ignorance? I'm not on anyone's side. I see merits to both sides of the equation here. However, I am trying to provide this community with the most likely outcome of such an ore discovery as has been my experience given my connection to the mining industry since I was born.

I welcome criticism to my opinions and/or predictions - we are all friends here... I'm just giving my version of a gut check.


dief


May 11, 2004, 6:50 AM
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Re: Closure of Queen Creek / Oak Flat AZ climbing areas. [In reply to]
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Yes, we knew what we were getting into. Yes, we know it will be an uphill battle. But like the lottery folks say 'Ya can't win if ya don't play". We (Friends of Queen Creek) will continue to fight for permanent access to this area until we win or the place caves in. Stay tuned to www.friendsofqueencreek.com. We'll be asking folks to send an email or two asking our governemental officials in the next week or so. You can help by adding your name to our email list. Our power lies in our numbers and we need everyone to join Friends of Queen Creek.


ahwatukian


May 12, 2004, 1:29 AM
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Good call! Yeah, let me think about adding my name to the list. I may, just let me think about it for awhile. Not a long while, just awhile.

Good response.

Thanks,
Ahwatukian


kalcario


May 12, 2004, 1:59 AM
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Re: Closure of Queen Creek / Oak Flat AZ climbing areas. [In reply to]
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*We were informed by Renzi's office that Resolution Copper Company has been actively lobbying various US Congressmen, including AZ Reps. Renzi and Jim Kolbe of the Eighth District to introduce legislation into Congress that would give the Oak Flat campground land (which is currently off limits to mining) to Resolution Copper, in exchange for other land in Arizona.* If this "land swap" legislation is successful, the executive order (signed by President Eisenhower and now in force for 50 years) that now protects the Oak Flat campground area from mining activities will be moot, as will the promise by the National Forest Service that a public comment period will have to preceed any mining related change of status for the campground.

If you feel that it is important to preserve future access to the site of the Phoenix BoulderBlast and want to help us, please sign up and join the Friends of Queen Creek today.*

Why not also suggest writing the aforementioned congressmen, Curt? Because they're both Republicans, and they'd rather join a satanic cult than have anything to do with placing long-term environmental preservation over short-term economic gain?

What effect, if any, would a change in the White House have? Would an enlightened Dept. of Interior, under a Democratic administration, be able to prevent Queen Creek from becoming a copper mine? Is this, as I suspect, the only feasible hope?


curt


May 12, 2004, 2:19 AM
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Joe,

If you are interested in helping, please join the Friends of Queen Creek. Also, we do encourage anyone interested in preserving access to Oak Flat to write letters to Mr. Kolbe and Mr. Renzi clearly stating that position. We will soon be posting a proposed form of that letter for those who are interested in using it. You are being overly simplistic to cast this issue as a Republican vs. Democrat issue. In fact, the staff member of Mr. Renzi's that we met with yesterday called me today regarding another upcoming meeting with Mr. Renzi himself in a few weeks. We have been assured that no decision on this potential land swap legislation will be made until Mr. Renzi holds meetings with all interested and potentially impacted user groups.

Curt


kalcario


May 12, 2004, 5:48 AM
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Re: Closure of Queen Creek / Oak Flat AZ climbing areas. [In reply to]
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The other obvious tactic (besides, of course, voting for John Kerry in November) would be to write the Democratic representatives from AZ, Rep. Ed Pastor from the 4th district which comprises metropolitan Phoenix, and Rep. Raul Grijalva from the southern 7th.

Rep. Grijalva in particular seems the most amenable to this cause...

"As chair of the House Democratic Environmental Task Force and a member of the House Resources Committee, Rep. Grijalva has been active in the fight for the environment. Rep. Grijalva is one of 144 co-sponsors of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge bill, (H.R.770) which will preserve the Arctic coastal plain in Alaska, as Wilderness. Rep. Grijalva will also, later this year, introduce an initiative that will protect the Tumacacori Highlands in Southern Arizona with a Wilderness designation."

www.house.gov.pastor

www.house.gov.grijalva


curt


Jun 23, 2004, 7:06 PM
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Re: Closure of Queen Creek / Oak Flat AZ climbing areas. [In reply to]
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The following Alert is being circulated by The Access Fund:

ACTION ALERT: YOUR HELP NEEDED!!

ARIZONA’S OAK FLAT THREATENED BY MINING PROPOSAL!!

Access to portions of Arizona’s Queen Creek/Oak Flat area – home to the Phoenix BoulderBlast (formerly, the Phoenix Bouldering Contest) – may be lost forever if a mining proposal to extract billions of dollars worth of high-grade copper is approved. Resolution Copper’s proposed mine – believed to be the largest copper ore body in North America, and located thousands of feet beneath the US Forest Service-managed Oak Flat area – could cause substantial ground subsidence requiring the area to be closed to public entry (see http://friendsofqueencreek.com/Subside.htm). The mine could affect hundreds of bouldering problems and roped routes, resulting in the largest ever loss of climbing resources in the US.

The Access Fund continues to work with the newly-formed Friends of Queen Creek (FOQC) to advocate for continue public access to the Oak Flat area, and identify possible outcomes whereby mining activity and climbing opportunities in the Queen Creek area can coexist. FOQC is not opposed to mining, but the long-term future of Arizona must include permanent recreational access to Oak Flat Campground and surrounding public lands for tourism, hiking, hunting, biking, birding, bouldering, rock climbing, camping, canyoneering, sightseeing, photography, picnicking, off-road vehicles, and other uses. Please join Friends of Queen Creek to ensure that Resolution Copper develops their mine in a responsible manner and does not destroy Oak Flat and Apache Leap.

At this stage Resolution Copper has completed initial feasibility studies and begun “informal discussions” with the US Forest Service’s Tonto National Forest concerning the proposal. Email the Tonto National Forest’s Deputy of Public Affairs Vincent Picard at vpicard@fs.fed.us for more information as to the status of these discussions.

The loss of Oak Flat access could also result from a proposed legislated land exchange, which could effectively take the public’s voice out of the approval process unless Congress is convinced otherwise.

THE FRIENDS OF QUEEN CREEK NEED YOUR HELP TO CONVINCE CONGRESS TO OPPOSE A LEGISLATED LAND EXCHANGE AUTHORIZING RESOLUTION COPPER TO ACQUIRE OAK FLAT!

If you would like to help FOQC lobby Congress in opposition of a legislated land exchange, log onto http://www.accessfund.org/programs/Queen_letter_6_04.html

For more information, check out www.friendsofqueencreek.org or email
info@friendsofqueencreek.com.


climbsomething


Jun 23, 2004, 9:08 PM
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do the BUMP dance


Partner rrrADAM


Jun 23, 2004, 9:24 PM
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I posted the same email from the AF thisd morning around 10ish, and even linked it to the Front Page to generate more exposure... Hopefully, people read one of them and email the appropriate party indicated.


curt


Jul 7, 2004, 5:43 AM
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Here is the official Friends of Queen Creek Position Paper, for those of you who are interested in seeing a concise statement of the facts regarding the current threat to climbing at Oak Flat/Queen Creek and our response to that threat.

In reply to:
Friends of Queen Creek – Position Paper.

The Friends of Queen Creek (FoQC) is an organization that has been formed to preserve permanent recreational access to the Oak Flat campground area approximately 4 miles east of Superior, Arizona, in the Tonto National Forest. That access is currently threatened by potential copper mining activity. It should be noted that FoQC is not an anti-mining group. Rather, FoQC advocates multiple uses of our public lands.

Oak Flat is a unique recreational area located within a convenient one-hour drive of the 5th largest city in the United States. It is also the site of the world’s largest annual outdoor rock climbing competition, the Phoenix Boulder-Blast. Although perhaps best known for its wonderful rock climbing, Oak Flat campground is also a recreational site frequented by bird watchers, hikers, dirt bike riders, campers and other recreational user groups.

The value of the Oak Flat area as a recreational resource has been officially acknowledged for many years. President Dwight Eisenhower recognized this in 1955 when he signed BLM Public Land Order 1229 which specifically put this land off-limits to all future mining activity. President Richard Nixon issued BLM PLO 5132 in 1971 to modify PLO 1229 and allow “all forms of appropriation under the public land laws applicable to national forest lands—except under the U.S. mining laws.” (italics added)

Since several other copper mines exist in this general area of Arizona, including the Superior mine immediately to the west, it seems clear that the possibility of copper ore being discovered in the Oak Flat campground area had to be considered at the time these Public Land Orders were put in place. However, as evidenced by the very issuance of the two Public Land Orders, the recreational value of this area to the public was obviously determined by Presidents Eisenhower and Nixon to outweigh its economic value as a mine site.

Resolution Copper company owns mining rights to lands adjacent to the Oak Flat campground area and they are currently planning to “block cave” the ore body found deep below the surface there. This will lead to eventual subsidence of the surface and will thereby potentially impact Oak Flat campground itself. In part to deal with that issue, Resolution Copper is currently trying to obtain the Oak Flat campground area by various means, including a possible legislative land exchange agreement. The friends of Queen Creek, The Access Fund, The Sierra Club and others are adamantly opposed to the use of a legislative land exchange arrangement involving the Oak Flat campground.

The reasons for our opposition are simple. Legislative land exchanges can effectively bypass and/or minimize any meaningful public comment regarding Resolution’s proposed land exchange and can also bypass Resolution’s obligation to deal with appropriate environmental requirements such as NEPA.

Below is some expert commentary on legislative land exchanges.

The Federal Land Exchange document prepared by the firm of Parsons Behle and Latimer of Salt Lake City says this about legislative land exchanges:

"... Legislative exchanges are not discussed in this paper because they are relatively rare and may bypass the public interest analysis, the appraisal process, and National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA) compliance required under FLPMA. All such issues are often addressed in the specific legislation authorizing the exchange, i.e., Congress deems the exchange to be in the public interest, and may provide that the properties are determined to be of equal value or sets the parameters for appraisal of the properties, and exempts the exchange from NEPA. Legislative exchanges quite often involve difficult or controversial issues that would prevent the exchange from being successfully completed through the FLPMA process...."

The Western Land Exchange Project, “www.westlx.org” has the following similar opinion of legislated land exchanges:

"Legislated land exchanges, several of which occur each year, are very problematic for citizen participants. These deals usually come to Congress when proponents know that they could not withstand public scrutiny. Swaps enacted through Congress routinely bar both administrative and judicial challenges by citizens. Many are swept through legislation without public knowledge or any real examination by members of Congress."

Any proposed change in status to a piece of land that was deemed important enough, by two United States Presidents, to warrant protection from mining activities, should be given full and open consideration in a forum that maximizes public input rather than one which restricts this type of scrutiny.

Resolution Copper Company has attempted to put its best foot forward and give the appearance that they intend to do business differently than other mining companies have done in the past. They speak extensively about “sustainable development” and building a mine for the 21st century. We applaud this vision and now ask them to live up to their own rhetoric. As stated previously, FoQC is not an anti-mining group. We merely want to protect and preserve access to Oak Flat campground for ourselves and for future generations. It is our opinion that Resolution needs to rethink its current mining plan and come up with a method of extracting the copper ore from their site without negatively impacting recreational access to Oak Flat.

Friends of Queen Creek
June 24, 2004

This document is also posted on the FoQC website at http://www.friendsofqueencreek.com

Curt


curt


Jul 18, 2004, 1:10 AM
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The Friends of Queen Creek website.......

http://www.friendsofqueencreek.com

.....has undergone a major overhaul and now contains far more relevant information. Please visit the site and sign up to help us save the Oak Flat / Queen Creek climbing areas from becoming just another hole in the ground. Thanks to all of you who have already signed up.

Curt


Partner amber


Oct 26, 2004, 5:08 AM
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Hey Curt, Any new news on this yet?


allarounder


Nov 4, 2004, 7:21 PM
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The more I have found out about the deposit, the less I believe it would be economically feasible to mine via a stope and fill method. I am starting work at another block cave soon, and understand a bit more of the relative economics. The long-hole stope and fill copper mines I know of average 5-8% copper. Resolution is, from my understanding, 1-2%. That works out to 2. to 4. billion dollars of top line revenue per billion tons of ore ($1.00 copper). That sounds like a lot, but consider capital costs. A 7000 foot shaft would cost in the neighborhood of $200-300 million dollars to drive. A deposit of this size would need three or four. Add equipment and plant and startup, and intial capital costs alone are well over a billion dollars. And we haven't gotten to pre-production development. Or operating costs. Or taxes. Or depletion. Environmental management. Or the myriad of other expenses associated with operating a mine. This is a world-class deposit - it would be fun to work there.


smeargle


Nov 4, 2004, 7:28 PM
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I noticed in the letters that I sent off to our politicians that they are planning to acquire this land via a land swap. Did the no vote on prop 100 this tuesday help to slow down the acquisition?

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