|
|
|
|
honeybee
Apr 15, 2004, 12:56 PM
Post #1 of 64
(4018 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 14, 2004
Posts: 26
|
Ok, my friends don't get me on this one.
Do any of you out there have no interest in leading at all?
I appear to get the same thrill from top roping as some of you lot do on leading. My adrenalin pumps, I feel fear, I find this exhilarating, and when I say I feel fear, I mean real fear. It's not a height thing; I get the same fear at the top as I do at the very bottom. It's as if I'm afraid of falling or being off balance. I'm fully aware that the top ropes not letting me go anywhere, but I still feel it. But it's all good, clean fear. I love climbing. Lot it too bits.
I have lead before, but lets just call it peer pressure that got me up there, (embarrassing that Im still suffering from that at 25) Lets just say I come very close to hurling. Not good, clean fear. Not something I want to do. I've read all the advice, tried it all. The taking calculated falls, placing gear while on top rope to get feel. Nothing prepares me for the feeling when I try to lead, cold sweats, and pure panic. Not Nice.
My request isn't for further advice on how to overcome this, don't think I can. It's more that I want to see if I'm the only freak, and how to convince my friends that it's not just me (wishful), and that while I will try anything put at me, I just dont want to lead, Sport or Trad.
Is it ok just to top rope?
|
|
|
|
|
honeybee
Apr 15, 2004, 12:57 PM
Post #2 of 64
(4018 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 14, 2004
Posts: 26
|
but any advice you can give, is more than welcome.
|
|
|
|
|
acrophobic
Apr 15, 2004, 12:58 PM
Post #3 of 64
(4018 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 8, 2002
Posts: 368
|
If you have an understanding partner who loves to lead it's fine. My climbing partner hates to lead, so i do it most the time and we are fine. I'll lead a route, and he'll top rope and clean it.
Have you tried leading in gyms and taking practice falls?
|
|
|
|
|
saagax
Apr 15, 2004, 1:19 PM
Post #4 of 64
(4018 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 23, 2001
Posts: 244
|
Well, for me top roping is not climbing, in fact climbing without leading is not climbing, but the rest of my group does not like leading so I do all the leading then just setup the top rope and let them have fun while I go to my next lead.
|
|
|
|
|
p_grandbois
Apr 15, 2004, 1:28 PM
Post #5 of 64
(4018 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 28, 2004
Posts: 328
|
No worries buddy, Climbing is climbing, prepare to be attacked for saying you just love top roping! and I will take heat for saying it. I lead I tope rope I try to do it all, in the end it is what you like, dosen't matter what the rest are into. Do your thing, climbing in any way is a thrill.
Don't listen to the people who will tell you any different. I have two buddies who won't even clean for me, nevermind lead, so you aren't alone.
|
|
|
|
|
bflank
Apr 15, 2004, 1:35 PM
Post #6 of 64
(4018 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 11, 2003
Posts: 48
|
To hell with what anyone else thinks (including me). Climb for yourself. Perhaps someday you will want to lead - till then enjoy TR climbing.
While for some it wouldn't be satisfying, what does that have to do with you? As long as it works for you and your partners, enjoy!
|
|
|
|
|
blueeyedclimber
Apr 15, 2004, 1:45 PM
Post #7 of 64
(4018 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 19, 2002
Posts: 4602
|
First of all, don't ever do something because of peer pressure. Especially climbing. Not everyone has the head to lead. Some people may never leave the gym. That's OK if that's all they want to do. It doesn't effect me at all and I am not going to put them down because of it. Leading because of peer pressure is a good way to get yourself killed. If you don't want to be up there then your are not going to be focused and will not make good decisions. Stand up for yourself and be happy that you enjoy climbing and find new partners who are supportive rather than degrading. To me, I see toproping as practice or training, but does that mean that you have to see it my way? No! There are a lot of people out there that are too scared to toprope, and are amazed at what you do. It's all relative.
Josh
|
|
|
|
|
reprieve
Apr 15, 2004, 1:45 PM
Post #8 of 64
(4018 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 24, 2004
Posts: 604
|
climb what you want - if you don't want to lead, don't bother with it. However, it sounds like you are mostly a gym climber - if you get into climbing outdoors, you will most likely find that is generally much more convenient to lead a route than always have to set up a top rope.
|
|
|
|
|
kathy
Apr 15, 2004, 1:49 PM
Post #9 of 64
(4018 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 7, 2003
Posts: 123
|
I used to feel that way for a long time - and actually used to get really annoyed when people say that top roping is not climbing (and I still disagree with this mentality) BUT
After a couple of good leads things started changing - I tend to push myself more on lead climbs. I mean, even though I'd be leading an easier route than I would top rope, somehow there is more effort and much more of a thrill.
Its the mental side which is different.
However, I have a couple of friends who say that leading is so different to top roping or seconding that it is a completely different sport, but I absolutely disagree!
so that's my 2c worth!
|
|
|
|
|
honeybee
Apr 15, 2004, 1:49 PM
Post #10 of 64
(4018 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 14, 2004
Posts: 26
|
i do a lot of both gym and outdoor, still learning to set up top anchors, and have no problem seconding climbs. just don't trust my own judgement or my climbing ability to even attempt leading trad.
my friends are supportive, i think they think they are helping me to push past the head block, but just don't know when to back off.
|
|
|
|
|
markc
Apr 15, 2004, 1:52 PM
Post #11 of 64
(4018 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 21, 2003
Posts: 2481
|
I enjoy leading, but I don't think there is anything wrong with strictly toproping/seconding. To each their own. My wife enjoys leading sport routes, and seconds trad routes, but doesn't want to lead on gear yet. I have another friend who won't second trad routes. It limits the sort of climbing we can do together, but it's not a big deal.
Why are your friends pushing you to lead? If you really have no desire, tell them outright. Friends push each other, which can be healthy. But if a friend puts up a boundary (ie: no leading), I do my best to try and respect it. I may bring it up for discussion, but I won't pressure.
I mean no offense, but it sounds like you might not be ready to lead (even if you wanted to). Excessive nerves are normal, especially early on. Panic is another beast entirely. The rock isn't going anywhere. If you start to feel restless on TR after a while, give leading another go. If not, just enjoy what you're doing. Out of curiosity, were you trying to lead near your toprope limit? Struggling with nerves and the route at the same time may be biting off more than you can chew.
mark
|
|
|
|
|
dredsovrn
Apr 15, 2004, 1:52 PM
Post #12 of 64
(4018 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2003
Posts: 1226
|
I have just started leading. I do enjoy top roping as well. Sometimes its nice (especially when I am with friends who don't do a lot of climbing) to just set up a top rope and have at it. You can definitely climb with more abandon on a solid top rope. Do whatever you want. Who cares what other people think.
|
|
|
|
|
holmeslovesguinness
Apr 15, 2004, 1:54 PM
Post #13 of 64
(4018 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 10, 2002
Posts: 548
|
My wife has lead a few sport climbs before, but by and large doesn't lead anymore because the fear outweighs the fun for her. It's never been a problem for us as she can generally follow anything I can lead with no sweat.
|
|
|
|
|
honeybee
Apr 15, 2004, 1:55 PM
Post #14 of 64
(4018 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 14, 2004
Posts: 26
|
most of the climbs i've lead have been well below my grade. the top lot, the ones that i'm stuck on are ones that I am able to do clean on top rope, but just don't have the balls to do leading.
|
|
|
|
|
craig_climber
Apr 15, 2004, 2:14 PM
Post #15 of 64
(4018 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 26, 2004
Posts: 71
|
I only started climbing a short time ago and still only do TR. I don't know when I'll be comfortable with that feeling you get with having the rope hang below you instead of above you. However, I think when I'm ready to lead, I'll start on a sport route. That will allow me to get used to the feeling. Also, I think I'll trust solid bolts more than the gear I would place :)
|
|
|
|
|
jcr
Apr 15, 2004, 2:33 PM
Post #16 of 64
(4018 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 17, 2004
Posts: 317
|
JUST CLIMB MAN.
Forget what everybody is saying and do your stuff I would probably prefer to cleanly toprope a 5.12 than to lead 5.10's. Give it all you've got.
My guess is that after a while you WILL want to do something different and may start to lead on your own. If not, who cares??? As long as you climb HARD.
JC
|
|
|
|
|
robmcc
Apr 15, 2004, 2:45 PM
Post #17 of 64
(4018 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 1, 2003
Posts: 2176
|
I once went to a small meeting discussing the topic "Should you pursue a PhD in CompSci" given by [name]Fred Brooks[/name]. The short answer was this: "Only if you can't imagine not doing it. Only if you want it that badly."
I think this applies to leading, too.
Many people will tell you that only leading is "real" climbing. People like me will (jokingly) tell you that only trad leading is "real" climbing. The truth is "real" climbing is whatever subset of climbing gives you, personally, enjoyment. Boulder, TR, sport (*cough* *sputter*), trad, aid, alpine, ice, whatever. Do what makes you happy.
If top roping makes you happy, stick with it. Leading costs more and is, like it or not, more likely to get you hurt. Trad leading costs a LOT more than top roping, too. Accept those costs and risks only when it's really worth it to you to do so, and never let what anyone else thinks you should do play any role in that decision. It's your life. It's your climbing. Do what makes you happy.
Rob
|
|
|
|
|
crazygirl
Apr 15, 2004, 2:54 PM
Post #18 of 64
(4018 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 27, 2003
Posts: 595
|
its about your own enjoyment, not about peer pressure
|
|
|
|
|
swede
Apr 15, 2004, 2:58 PM
Post #19 of 64
(4018 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 1, 2003
Posts: 133
|
I canīt really figure you out. If you are still learning have to do TR anchors, I donīt think you should even consider leading. If you canīt put solid pro with all the time in the world, when you sure canīt do it on a climb, ie you are an accident waiting to happen.
On the other hand, if you have seconded enough to know how good pro looks like, it should be a mental thing. If EXPERIENCED and not to young climbers say you are ready to lead you probably are.
Leading is serious business and no one should ever be pressed to do it against their will. Itīs more of courage to say no to lead, than to lead because of peer pressure.
|
|
|
|
|
tonedawk
Apr 15, 2004, 3:04 PM
Post #20 of 64
(4018 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 1, 2003
Posts: 20
|
I remember when I first started climbing I was terrified even when on top rope. The fear went away after quite a while and I started to lead some sport climbs. Then when I got comfy doing sport I started to lead trad. The funny thing is that fear and adrenalin never played a part in my desire to climb trad. The focus and challenge of placing gear and climbing a route with no bolts is exillerating. I love the challenge.
The point is that it is different for everyone. I remember I thought at one time I would never be "crazy" enough to climb trad. I even thought sport was maybe a little scary. As time passed and I climbed more and more, these thing changed in me. I began to climb, maybe, for the right reasons(for me at least). I didn't need to climb every day to get an adrenaline fix, but because I loved to climb. I was limiting myself by not expanding my abilities and so I progressed. It's up to the individual to decide to progress when ready.
|
|
|
|
|
fiend
Apr 15, 2004, 3:11 PM
Post #21 of 64
(4018 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 25, 2001
Posts: 3669
|
Everyone knows that soloing is the only real climbing.
Back to the OP though, take your time. If you find enough thrill in toproping right now then stick with that. Largely fear is a lack of trust in your abilities and gear and once you get more comfortable with toproping you will likely find the fear will dissapear and you will become bored with the challenges.
Not everyone needs to be leading within their first week of climbing, I toproped for several years before getting on the sharp end for the first time.
|
|
|
|
|
sensortrifulcador
Apr 15, 2004, 3:21 PM
Post #22 of 64
(4018 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 23, 2004
Posts: 21
|
Follow your own rythm, not someone elseīs.
Asimilate fear as it comes, itīll block you less with time, as you practice more you will use that fear to get you up there.
Climb and enjoy. Leading will come to you.
Peace
|
|
|
|
|
euroford
Apr 15, 2004, 9:26 PM
Post #23 of 64
(4018 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 26, 2002
Posts: 2913
|
my opinion for the topic poster: climb any way that makes you happy.
my opinion for my own climbing: i don't really consider it climbing unless i am on lead and placing gear, or following a leader and cleaning gear. though i have topropped, bouldered and sportclimbed, i consider those off day excersises for skill building in anticipation of trad climbing. i also don't ever lead in the gym, it just seams like pointlessly contriving an already contrived excersise.
i'm sure many people would/will/have suggest leading sport climbs below your onsight level to build lead confidence. i would, on the other hand, suggest leading a low grade trad climb that swallows gear with a massive rack. this way you can constantly plug gear in above your head and essentially keep yourself on toprope while leading. before you know it, you'll start naturally climbing above your gear as you build confidence.
|
|
|
|
|
naitch
Apr 15, 2004, 9:49 PM
Post #24 of 64
(4018 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 17, 2002
Posts: 539
|
I started climbing when I was 49 and top roping was all I ever aspired to do. I thought I was just too old, settled and had too much to loose. Climbed top-rope for 2 years and enjoyed it. By the end of the second year the "thrill was gone". No more head trip - it was purely physical -about what I could push my body to do and about technique. Next year I started leading sport climbs - the head trip came back. The next year I started climbing trad, not because the head trip wasn't there with sport climbing but for the addtional challenge of route finding and gear placement and not being limited to "somebody else's line." I still enjoy top-roping - to me it is pure flow - no worrying about draws or placing gear, no hanging out or down time and being able to push limits. Pushing limits is a part of sport and trad also but it's pushing mental AND physical limits. Trad climbing is most demanding because of route finding, gear placements and needing more endurance for doing the above. I suspect, in your own time you will want to lead. Maybe 2 years maybe 4, who knows. If you don't, well that's great too. Do what feels good and right for you and gives you a challenge and enjoyment.
|
|
|
|
|
climbsomething
Apr 15, 2004, 10:09 PM
Post #25 of 64
(4018 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 30, 2002
Posts: 8588
|
In reply to: Well, for me top roping is not climbing, in fact climbing without leading is not climbing, but the rest of my group does not like leading so I do all the leading then just setup the top rope and let them have fun while I go to my next lead.
But anyway, while I don't get the same "fear" and "rush" out of toproping, I do get the same basic enjoyment. I am not anti-leading, because I can and do lead. I just don't care so much that I HAVE to lead less I think I am missing out on something huge. I don't have snotty friends who think I am not really climbing unless I am "balls-out!!!1" quaking above my last piece, and when I do come across those people, I swiftly dump them... I don't do the peer pressure thing. That's silly.
To risk cliche- climb for you. If you like toproping, there is nothing wrong with that and honestly, I think it shows you're a little more secure with yourself and your climbing to shamelessly admit it. Some big-name climber- no, I am not about to qute Alex Lowe!- said never pass up a toprope. Why not?
But hey, I do lead more than I eat meat or drink beer, though that ain't saying much... I'm just weird like that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
