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campo
Apr 26, 2004, 11:55 PM
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Recently overheard a instructor telling his belayer to jump when he took a lead fall? Ive have only been climbing 2 years, and have seen many belay techniques, but this was the first time I saw this. Does anyone else employ this technique? And if so, what is the benefit?
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rocknut1
Apr 27, 2004, 12:08 AM
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The whole idea is to take off some of the force on a piece of trad gear or an ice screw. By jumping or by having the belayer go towards the direction of pull, some of the force is taken away.
Another way of looking at it is that it does the same thing as rope stretch.
Just make sure that your climbing buddy knows what you are doing.
A 10 footer can turn into a 15 footer in a hurry.
Bottom line is that there is a time and a place for it and not for it.
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rocknut1
Apr 27, 2004, 12:09 AM
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The whole idea is to take off some of the force on a piece of trad gear or an ice screw. By jumping or by having the belayer go towards the direction of pull, some of the force is taken away.
Another way of looking at it is that it does the same thing as rope stretch.
Just make sure that your climbing buddy knows what you are doing.
A 10 footer can turn into a 15 footer in a hurry.
Bottom line is that there is a time and a place for it and not for it.
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slablizard
Apr 27, 2004, 12:13 AM
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Part of the "Dynamic belay" technique.
Avoid said technique before the 3rd bolt from the ground (generally) since obviously your leader may deck.
Also make sure that you are as close as possible to the wall and under the vertical of the first bolt, otherwise whn you jump you will swing and hit the wall yourself. That is not good, for you and your leader, since you might let the rope go to stop your impact on the wall.
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corey
Apr 27, 2004, 12:29 AM
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Dynamic belays are particularly useful when the climber is severely outweighed by the belayer. Like Tenndawg in the linked post, I always thought the shorter the fall, the better. However, my climbing partner and I had a talk one day about catches and such and how, since I'm 225 lbs and he's 150 lbs, if I don't move when he falls, he gets a very unpleasant arrest. Since the sole purpose of the belayer is to see to the needs/comfort of the climber (this includes keeping them off the deck when they fall), a soft catch is a good catch and will ensure your partner WANTS to be your partner. The first thing I ask, when belaying someone new on lead, is what they weigh, so I can gauge my hop.
When I took my first lead fall, my partner (same 150 lb guy) didn't think about the weight difference and jsut wanted me to have a soft catch. Well, 30' later we were both sitting at the first bolt of the route. :lol: On my way down I managed an "Uh, Matt?!" My partner now knows he doesn't need to hop to give me a soft catch.
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geezergecko
Apr 27, 2004, 12:45 AM
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We are talking here about a hop when the belayer feels the beginning of rope stretch at the end of the leader fall to soften the catch. I have used this many times to catch leaders who weigh considerably less than me.
Now I'm wondering if a jump could be used by the belayer at the point in time when the leader begins to fall in a decking situation to yard in as much rope as possible and then the belayer falls back to the ground a split second before the leader reaches the end of the leader fall. I am not sure if this would work. I throw the idea out here for discussion about the possiblity of saving a decking leader.
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thisguy
Apr 27, 2004, 1:19 AM
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Interesting thought. It seems like that would work in theory, but in reality, I doubt most people would have quick enough reactions to perform all that before the climber decks. Particularly when you consider that if they are decking, they are probably not that high to begin with, so it will most likely be a quick fall. Of course if it is a long fall, it may allow you enough time to try it. I would just hate to see what happens when you jump to pull in more slack, but you were too late so they deck with little to no resistance. Ouch.
Guy
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mattiem
Apr 27, 2004, 1:25 AM
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as far as the jumping to keep a partner from decking goes it definely works as i have done just that and kept my partner from decking. you have to be paying attention and be ready to do it as soon as they start ot fall. My partner ended up about a foot off the ground and i had taken in about 5 feet of rope.
peas
matt
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kafish
Apr 27, 2004, 2:17 AM
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just another note, in the back of last months rock and ice there is an article about the dynamic belay. it may be of some help.
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reprieve
Apr 27, 2004, 5:42 PM
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From the Petzl website:
"It's only by being attentive that you can arrest a fall dynamically, by jumping to absorb the impact at the moment that the rope comes tight."
http://www.petzl.com/...s/Conseil_32_2_4.gif
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alpnclmbr1
Apr 27, 2004, 6:07 PM
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In reply to: Also make sure that you are as close as possible to the wall and under the vertical of the first bolt, otherwise whn you jump you will swing and hit the wall yourself. That is not good, for you and your leader, since you might let the rope go to stop your impact on the wall.
Swinging into the wall when you do a jumping belay is the norm rather than the exception. If you cannot do a dynamic belay while neatly crashing into the wall feet first, in complete control of the rope and what you are doing. Then you shouldn't be belaying.
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tenn_dawg
Apr 27, 2004, 6:28 PM
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Heh, thanks for linking that thread Dan. I'd forgotten I wrote that. There's some good discussion.
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