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dredsovrn
May 2, 2004, 12:37 PM
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I started leading about two months ago. I have been working on 5.3, 4's, 5's. Getting more comfortable with the sharp end each time, but not on really shaky ground since I can usually climb 5.10 following. As you all know it is a different story on lead. The last time I was out, I saw a line that looked like a cool second pitch to Hollywood out on Chickies Rock. From the River View ledge, I was looking at Mikes Roof, a 5.10 roof with all the crux at the beginning. I was climbing on half ropes so I climbed up to the roof, pulled up into it and tried to place a green Metolius FCU. Too big. A Clog 1.5 goes in just right, and I clip the left rope. I down climbed to a rest, and then went up again. I found myself stuck, burning out, holding my breath in the middle of the crux. TAKE. I fell about 3 or 4 feet onto the Clog. My first lead fall. Hearing it creek in the rock was a little disturbing, but it held. After resting for a second, I lowered and went at it again. When I got to the roof, I check the Clog, still looked good, and placed a number 1 Metolius TCU on the right side, clipped it with the right rope and climbed on. At the very top of the roof, I couldn't get my foot up on the edge. I was freaking out, and then I was off. A total fall of about 8' was over before I knew it. My second lead fall. My belayer was right on it and caught me about 4' off the ledge. A little rest, and I went for it again. This time it went. A red letter day.
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rudyj2
May 2, 2004, 1:12 PM
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While this isn't my first lead fall, it might be interesting to some. March 30 thru April 3, 2004 I was climbing the Nose of El Cap. I was leading the Pancake flake pitch above the Great Roof, being a puss I was aiding instead of freeing. I had free climbed form the anchor up to my first piece, a fixed piton, and then freed a little more up to another fixed piece, an old freind with ratty slings on it, after clipping both of these I started aiding on tcus up to another fixed piton. I was now 30' above the belay on a blue tcu about to clip the fixed piton when the tcu I was on popped. The only thing I can figure was the flake expanded. Next thing I am flying on what should be a short fall, but it doesn't end right away and I just keep falling, past the belay ledge and my patner, after hitting my knee on the belay ledge I spin upside down and smack my head into the wall and finally stop falling. I am now 20' below my belayer and pretty shook up. As it turns out the sling on the old fixed freind had seen better days and blew apart, not once but twice. Lessons to learn from this series of mistakes. 1. Don't trust fixed gear. I had been trying to climb fast and conserve my own gear. 2. Always wear helmets and knee pads when aid climbing. The helmut probably saved my life. The kneepad definitly saved my knee and the climb. I was barely able to continue the climb although I did finfish the lead. 3. When placing pro in expanding cracks use cams that are slightly over cammed. When I went back up to finish this lead I put a yellow tcu in the same spot, no problem. That is about it, any other imput is appreciated.
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alpinerock
May 3, 2004, 12:00 AM
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I haven't fallen on trad yet, but my friend had his first trad fall last week. We were on the second pitch of i think it was hand jive(5.9?)? in LCC, he was leading the second pitch which involved downclimbing 10 ft from the belay, traversing/chimmenying another 20 ft and then climbing 10 ft up through the crux to where you can place your first piece, he fell right before where you could place pro and ended up taking a 20+ ft whipper past the belay. He bruised his knee pretty badly and had whiplash for the next week.
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brutusofwyde
May 3, 2004, 12:31 AM
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Don't fall. [TM] It's a BIG DEAL. [TM] You could DIE. [TM] Brutus of Wyde Old Climbers' Home Oakland, California
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dredsovrn
May 3, 2004, 12:40 AM
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In reply to: Don't fall. [TM] It's a BIG DEAL. [TM] You could DIE. [TM] Brutus of Wyde Old Climbers' Home Oakland, California I am not sure I follow you. Are you saying you never fall? Don't mistake my post as a suggestion that I don't take my life seriously. No one has more concern for my safety than myself, but sometimes, even if you don't try, you fall. That's what pro and ropes are for. Otherwise, why use them.
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cooee147
Jun 8, 2004, 1:38 AM
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quote" No one has more concern for my safety than myself, but sometimes, even if you don't try, you fall" if u ain't trying then there has to be something up.i always go out in a mind that is concentrating only on wot has to be climbed.so if ur not trying ur concern for ur own safety can't be that high.
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badass
Jun 8, 2004, 1:40 AM
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You can't afford to fall on trad. Thats why it sucks. You only push yourself in a life death way not about physical improvement.
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paulraphael
Jun 8, 2004, 6:11 PM
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<> Hello?? I definitely remember this being the rule back in the days of hemp ropes and nailed boots, but in the last 40 years or so it's become quite normal for people to push themselves in trad and to fall while doing it--some even fall routinely. It just happens to take more knowledge and experience in trad in order to make the falls safe (and to know when they're not going to be safe). Any idea that pushing yourself on lead was invented by and for sport climbers must come from a pretty nearsighted view of history.
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firsttraxx
Jun 8, 2004, 6:29 PM
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Getting that first fall was pretty formative for me. It cemented a lot of things in my head, and allowed me to toss some vexation out. My climbing's been much better since then. I landed on a #4 clog after failing to read any helpful beta about the roof of Haystack at Lover's Leap (Tahoe). "Nice research, dumba**." I never even knew there was a killer jug out there, but there is. Clearly, I missed it. Point is, after that first fall, I've been ever more trusting of my gear, and have climbed more solidly and confidently. That's just my experience. You climb high, you fall occasionally. Protect it and get it. FT
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dredsovrn
Jun 8, 2004, 6:32 PM
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In reply to: Getting that first fall was pretty formative for me. It cemented a lot of things in my head, and allowed me to toss some vexation out. My climbing's been much better since then. I landed on a #4 clog after failing to read any helpful beta about the roof of Haystack at Lover's Leap (Tahoe). "Nice research, dumba**." I never even knew there was a killer jug out there, but there is. Clearly, I missed it. Point is, after that first fall, I've been ever more trusting of my gear, and have climbed more solidly and confidently. That's just my experience. You climb high, you fall occasionally. Protect it and get it. FT I agree. It helped me get over what was sometimes a big mistrust of gear. Despite any logical process I used. Falling and not having it rip out help that trust factor.
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hosh
Jun 8, 2004, 7:41 PM
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I haven't taken a trad fall yet. But there was this one time where I was pulling through the crux of a 5.10 and I got pumped to the point where I couldn't finish it. I had to stick a single cam and a nut in the crack and lower off that (didn't have any other gear that would fit the crack in front of me) and the gear didn't seem to be that solid. I was stressing the whole way down. But that made me trust my gear a lot more. I still would have liked to have had 3 peices of pro in the crack though. Yeah, I haven't fallen on trad yet (and I don't plan to).
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badass
Jun 8, 2004, 7:57 PM
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How many trad climbers do you know that have shattered an ankle trad climbing?
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dredsovrn
Jun 8, 2004, 7:59 PM
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In reply to: How many trad climbers do you know that have shattered an ankle trad climbing? Zero. I know some boulderers who have screwed up their ankles though.
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badass
Jun 8, 2004, 8:05 PM
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Trad climbing can be safe. It just isn't usually. Taking falls on sport climbs or even bouldering other than highball is way safer do the vertical or overhanging nature of the rock. Slab falls are the most dangerous kind and slabs are usually the most poorly protected climbs.
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paulraphael
Jun 8, 2004, 8:07 PM
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< John Long writes in one of his books about Paul Piana and Todd Skinner on the first free climb of the Salathe Wall on El Capitan. They got stuck near the top and realized the problem was they didn't trust their gear in that intimidating setting. So they started the next day by taking lead falls, over and over, starting with short ones, and ending with 40 footers (on blank, overhung granite). They fell until falling got boring. And then they sent the route by starting each day like this, and climbing with full confidence. Lack of falling experience is definitely something that holds me back in my trad leading. I trust the gear--kind of. But there's a big difference between kind of, sort of, theoretically trusting your gear and having that concrete experience of landing on it and not dying. if you practice, do it in a safe place. If you're nervous, put in a couple of backup pieces (that will only take load if your main piece fails). This might help you get up your courage. And definitely do it with lots of rope out, so you don't beat yourself up or take too much life out of your rope.
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paulraphael
Jun 8, 2004, 8:15 PM
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< John Long writes in one of his books about Paul Piana and Todd Skinner on the first free climb of the Salathe Wall on El Capitan. They got stuck near the top and realized the problem was they didn't trust their gear in that intimidating setting. So they started the next day by taking lead falls, over and over, starting with short ones, and ending with 40 footers (on blank, overhung granite). They fell until falling got boring. And then they sent the route by starting each day like this, and climbing with full confidence. Lack of falling experience is definitely something that holds me back in my trad leading. I trust the gear--kind of. But there's a big difference between kind of, sort of, theoretically trusting your gear and having that concrete experience of landing on it and not dying. if you practice, do it in a safe place. If you're nervous, put in a couple of backup pieces (that will only take load if your main piece fails). This might help you get up your courage. And definitely do it with lots of rope out, so you don't beat yourself up or take too much life out of your rope.
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gat
Jun 8, 2004, 8:20 PM
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In reply to: You can't afford to fall on trad. Thats why it sucks. You only push yourself in a life death way not about physical improvement. Speak for yourself. You mean YOU can't fall on trad. Trad can lead to physical improvement, but first you must improve mentally.
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slobmonster
Jun 9, 2004, 12:08 AM
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It's hard to foget my first fall, as I have moved back to the area and now climb on the same cliffs I learned to climb on, years ago. An absurdly humid NH day, mid July I think, and I just peeled off a mantel finish to a nice old-school 5.8. The gear was well (WELL) below my feet, and with rope stretch I fell somewhere near thirty feet, bouncing off the slab below in the process. And I worked my ankle in the process. It took quite a while before I found myself comfortable pulling moves well above my gear. Nowadays I tend to keep a more keen eye on the weather... slabby scary moves that might be fine on a nice autumn day are just out of the question on a slimy summer day.
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rockburn
Jun 9, 2004, 12:23 AM
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My first whipper was about 14 feet. Scared the sh#$ out of me, but the gear held, I didn't get hurt, and I've trusted my gear more ever since. (Not to mention, since then I've had a real love of Alien cams)
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catbiter
Jun 9, 2004, 1:25 AM
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I have yet to take a "real fall" on my pro. I do however trust it. I've bounce tested (the hang dog I am) a few pieces to give me the extra courage to commit. I'm a wuss.
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pulley
Jun 9, 2004, 7:49 PM
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I was climbing with my roomate who has never trad lead and had never cleaned before either (some sport in the gym), when he decided that he wanted to trad lead. I gave him a crash course in gear placement and gave him my rack. We selected an easy 5.7+ 40 ft route for his first lead climb. Close to topping out he shouts down "you are gonna hate this placement" and proceeds to climb. I was thinking what an idiot my roomate is and then all of the sudden he falls about 15 feet and the cam holds him. "Not too bad of a placement...at least it held" i yelled up to him. he was a little shaky but he finished the route and actually lead some more that weekend. the best part of the day was him commenting "I don't value my life much" ... i am thinking about finding a new climbing partner. ~
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breaksnclimbs
Jun 9, 2004, 8:47 PM
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In reply to: You can't afford to fall on trad. Thats why it sucks. You only push yourself in a life death way not about physical improvement. Are you kidding me??? How often do you see someone onsight .12 or higher trad routes?? I've seen many attempts but it usually ends up a red point, which means they fell. Gear is pretty high tech these days and placed well even micro cams and brass nuts hold good length whippers. I know I've been there. And push yourself in a life and death way??? What kind of trad routes do YOU climb??? I'm not talking about r/x rated climbs here. Many trad routes take good gear at any point in the climb if you choose to stop and place it. As someone else stated:
In reply to: Any idea that pushing yourself on lead was invented by and for sport climbers must come from a pretty nearsighted view of history. If you know what you're doing falling is a very effective way to overcome the fear of that very thing. Note that there are times on trad routes where falling is just NOT an option!! That's when the climber needs to know him/herself well enough to make the decision to commit, or to back off and retreat. And there have been ALOT of times when I've been forced to clip a Sh!tty, spinning hanger on rusty button head and I know a well placed piece of trad gear would be a hundred times more reliable!! The thing about bolts is that you don't know how old they are, who placed 'em, or if that person knew what they were doing when they were placing them. At least with trad gear I can judge the rock quality, the nut placement or the cam fit. OBVIOUSLY......just my two senseio RS :wink: p.s. You mean to tell me you've never seen a bolted slab Badass :roll: ??? Please, trad routes can be every bit as steep as sport. Rock is rock, it comes in many shapes colors and sizes.
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grayzed
Jun 12, 2004, 9:03 PM
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confucious say read this one! if you dont trust your gear you either shouldnt be a trad climber or need to take some falls on good gear if you havent fallen on trad gear you either just started trad climbing or are not pushing yourself enough although some people just dont fall those people drink red bull and have wings if your not placing good gear or dont know if your gear is good you shouldnt be a trad climber if you comfortably climb trad and fall comfortably on good gear and place good gear know when you dont have an option for good gear and how to handle the situation as it allows, also know rock qualities. your a trad climber I was at red rocks when a guy was simul climbing solar slab a very easy route he was a 5.11 climber and was running it way out when a hold broke they flew in a heli and picked him up off a ledge.. he wasnt dead but injured his legs badly as he fell onto a ledge... my point is that even on easy terrain things happen people fall people get hurt and people die.... if you are not comfortable with risk and have never been walking and tripped and fallen then you must be sepcial and wont falll climbing trad... ha good luck
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grayzed
Jun 12, 2004, 9:07 PM
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oh yeah hes right 2 weeks ago I took an 8 foot fall on my smallest microcam and of course it held thats what I fucking bought it for.. i had a piece a foot below it cause its range is shit but the fact is correctly placed gear will hold you and if you dont know what correctly placed gear looks like your a sport climber and it looks like a bolt...
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bellatoris
Jun 13, 2004, 8:02 PM
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In reply to: You can't afford to fall on trad. Thats why it sucks. You only push yourself in a life death way not about physical improvement. T2
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