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coylec
Apr 23, 2004, 5:39 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Side by side, I think pins are better because you are able to test them, unless of course, you don't have a hammer. coylec Do you often free climb with a hammer...?
Yes, I have a hammer in my bag of stuff. It goes with my aiders, daisies, hooks, pitons and more. I don't mind hiking with a couple more pounds of weight if it means i've got the stuff I need when I need it. If I know a route has pins and I suspect they may not be the best, I'll bring a hammer to do some LIGHT tapping. Hammers also rock to unseat stuck nuts. Booty-time!
coylec
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jerrygarcia
Apr 26, 2004, 6:33 PM
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In reply to: yo, jerrygarcia, where the heck did you get those chicken heads?
Bought them at Hudson Trail Outfitters, Back in 1992. HTO is a chain of stores in the washington DC metro area.
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tradklime
Apr 26, 2004, 10:26 PM
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qwert,
As promised, I'm done with the piton discussion. However, i will address some of the bolt related items...
In reply to: As far as i understood you, you are favoring SS expansion bolts. Apart from being unreliable, they are putting a large amount of outward forces on the rock. this may work in hard stuff, but in soft conglomerate, you may totally blow the placement. If you are bolting it: For soft stuff: Use long glue-ins!!
Beside old 1/4 inch bolts, are you aware of any specific failures of an appropriately placed expansion bolt?
In reply to: Expansion bolts are also a piece of protection on wich you should be really carefull: Look at how the forces of a fall are distributed among the many companets of the bolt, and how large the contact area is where the forces get to. this is totally crazy!
In reply to: Even if its not weighted, there is a constant (large) amount of many different torque forces on the bolt. Its constantly under tension wich helps the rust to do greater damage.
In reply to: Stainless steel insnt really rust free, since the process of rusting is just a chemical reaction between the metal and the oxygen of the air. Varios other chemicals out of the bolt, the rock, the rain, the air ... play in this game, doing good things or bad things. You could place two eqeal SS bolt in two different rocks, it could stay safe for 20 years int the first, and get totally screwed within 2 years in the second. *Really* rustfree materials are stuff like gold, platin, titanium and some sort of steel (the one good taps and citchen sinks are made of) but they all arent usable for expansion bolts, since the varius amounts of tension forces on them.
The one possible exception are titanium glues-ins, I don't know enough about them, they could last forever for all i know...
In reply to: And last but not least: expansion bolts need to be set with a speicial amount of torque, so you should set them with a torque wrench. This mostly isnt done, mostly bolts are overthigtened, wich is as bad as a loose bolt. You know: loose, thigter, thigt, thigter .... loose qwert
In reply to: ps. what did you mean with BIG PICTURE? |
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qwert
Apr 27, 2004, 7:55 AM
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Thanks for your response.
i think i got your point.
glue ins are really hard to remove or are looking ugly when removed, but normally (apart from a seacliff enviroment or a rock who is "leaking" some sort of acid water) you dont need to remove them (another exception: if sume **** let theirselfs getting lowered directly from them).
I will keep my point of view: expansion type bolts have many drawbacks, wich you can only avoid be replacing them at a constant rate.
Shure, the are made for teh *crazy mess* of forces, but their origin is in construction working and not climbing. Most are only some kind of *one time* piece, and my expieriences are going in this direction.
As sayd im no expert, but this is my point of view.
Maybe i dont see the good points of them since im from a area where you will find 70%glue ins, 20% no gear/ rusty pitons 5% homemade stuff and 5% expansion bolts.
qwert
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madmax
May 4, 2004, 5:27 PM
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Didn't feel like reading through everyone's rantings about what to do, so maybe someone already recommend this, but how about the knot techique they use in eastern Europe. Berndt Arnold runs it out twenty feet on 5.12 climbing on a tiny knot stuffed into a pocket, and he's still alive, so maybe you want to try it. Actually, you probably want to read up on it first (it ain't no overhand knot), but it sure would be cool to use them. Everyone in your community would be impressed.
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clandestino
May 4, 2004, 7:39 PM
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About Arnold and a knot in the pockets:
Arnold does it on a sandstone only.
The thing about that kind of sandstone is that it has often iron like coating
on the surface, either as a flakes or as a kind of a rim around shorter cracks and around pockets and it is usually quite jagged but blunt ...so you
can sort of vedge it in(the knot) and it can be as good of a pro as is bomber choc placement ....
(i did grow up(climbing vice) on eastern euro sandstone :D )
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