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happiegrrrl
May 18, 2004, 3:58 AM
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...er, I mean beta!
It's been almost funny, but now it's beginning to get annoying.
I climb at a gym with a partner who, quite frankly, sucks. He's a nice person and all, and I agreed to a standing climbing session each week when I first started climbing. At the time, I was absolutely thrilled that someone would be willing to partner with me.
Says he climbs at 5.9, yet he can't stay on-route for the 5.6's.... Paws the wall in search of footholds, rather than simply taking aim before stepping - calls it smearing....
A few sessions ago, I was attemping a route that I couldn't get the sequence on and when a supervisor offered assistance, my partner got prickly. Said he was trying to concentrate on the belay and this was distracting him. Anyway, a few days later, I was at the gym again and got help on the route. Now I can dance right through. So, I realize that help is...well, rather helpful!
So tonight we embarrassed ourselves again, unable to get the sequence on what's probably a 5.6 route. A fellow climber tried offering beta, but my partner brushed him away. Rudely even.
So afterward, I said "I'm gonna ask him how to do the route" and it was SO wierd the way this guy bold-facedly demanded I not do it. There wasn't a fight or anything. I just saw the reaction he had and how quickly it came. It was almost funny. But I knew better than to push it.
I'm not sure there's much I can do with this situation. I guess I feel bad because I feel that by partnering with this person, unless there's some sort of a breakthrough, I'm sort of wasting my time.
I don't really learn anything during these sessions, and we don't even interact with the others in the gym. When I go on my own, I have all sorts of great interaction with others. I offer belays to people who don't have partners, compliment great climbing and get lots of pointers....
...and I am making some good friends too. I guess my question is "How am I going to either change this situation (find a way to allow others to help us when we need it) or else get out of this standing appointment with this guy without being abrupt?" I don't want to "be busy" ont eh nights we have this standing session; it is the one day a week in my schedule that is nearly always open.
Have any of you had a similar situation? If so, what did you do? I suppose this doesn't necessarily even have to be gender specific issue. I used to have a hard time letting others help me myself.
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granite_grrl
May 18, 2004, 4:24 AM
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It seems that he certinally isn't the ideal partner for you, and I would think that if you feel this way about him that he probably has some problems with you too.
It sounds like you are always doing route climbing at the gym, why not try bouldering instead? Bouldering works well with larger groups (so you could easily invite someone else along, or hook up with other people climbing there at the same time). I also find that it's also much more beta intensive than route climbing, which may force the beta issue.
I know some people who want no beta when they climb, and that's their choice (I normally ask if they want any before I give any), but he should have nothing to say as to whether you want beta or not, doesn't effect his climbing.
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holdplease2
May 18, 2004, 4:42 AM
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While I feel that I do not have enough "r"s in my username to participate at this point, happiegrrrl, you have great delivery.
"...calls it smearing"
Hilarious.
This guy has issues, you will find other great partners. Enjoy them. He will be green with envy due to both your progress and your popularity. Enjoy this as well. Or bring him down the path which leads to enlightenment. Your choice.
-Kate.
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overlord
May 18, 2004, 8:30 AM
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change the partner.
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changling
May 18, 2004, 3:23 PM
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If I were you, I'd talk to him about that. Let him know that unless he changes his attitude and allows you to get beta when you want it, you'll just find someone else to climb with.
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sierramike
May 18, 2004, 3:28 PM
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I agree with everyone else when they say to change partners. That seems like a no-brainer. I mean, there are just some folks out there that I absolutely WILL NOT tie into the same rope. But what strikes me as odd, perhaps even a bit frightening is the fact that this guy is so controlling toward you. I realize that we allow others to control us (at least to a certain extent by our passiveness, apathy, fear of "offending them", etc.), so I say back away from this guy. He attempts to control others as well. Not a good sign in a person or partner.
I don't think it's a "beta issue", but more a domineering issue on his part. I don't know how far this guy is willing to take that, but how far are you?
Then again I could be so far off base that...............never mind.
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taino
May 18, 2004, 3:31 PM
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Terri, problems between partners are definitely best solved before you leave the ground. Ask him what's up, and tell him your thoughts. If he can't handle that, of you don't like his answer, it's time for a new partner. Seriously.
Anyone I know, so that I can avoid them?
T
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maculated
May 18, 2004, 3:43 PM
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In reply to: While I feel that I do not have enough "r"s in my username to participate at this point, happiegrrrl, you have great delivery. "...calls it smearing"
Mate' spewed all over computer. Thank you.
Just like in the real world, there's chumps out there. Surprise surprise!
/the distinctly non-crazy, non-chumpish maculated
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crazygirl
May 18, 2004, 3:56 PM
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there are ways to slowly make a transition to another partner without being rude.
also, if you are only climbing with him one day a week, its not a big deal, suck it up.
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the_pirate
May 18, 2004, 4:14 PM
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these other climbers that offered you beta were.....male?
sounds like classic cock blocking.
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happiegrrrl
May 18, 2004, 4:14 PM
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Hey Everyone,
Thanks for the advice.....
granite_grrrl - Yeah, he prolly has some issues with me, too. I can be overly confident and flamboyant when I'm feeling my oats, and that can be discomforting to people who are reticent about interaction.
Bouldering is a good idea - I have been traversing on the vertical walls when I'm alone, but I guess the guys would just love to have little "happiegrrrl" attempting some of the stuff they do.... It will be good for laughs anyway - and I'll get to receive all the help there is to be had.....
holdplease2 - thanks for the fun compliment...I guess you'll just have to be happy having grrrit in your own sense of humour.....I will tell you that the other night, when I 'danced' through afore-mentioned route - he jumped up and attempted to one-up by running through the route with less holds. I was dumbfounded, to be honest. I hadn't realized I kickstarted the competitive button.....(but I sort of liked it, too....especially when he got tangled in his own little mess...hehehe)
changling - I know that you have offered the best advice - to communicate....Yikes! I am not sure how to broach the subject. I don't think it's just as simple as "I want others to help, so you gotta let me let them." I guess the dynamic is a little more convoluted than that, and I am afraid of confrontation (or I am a control freak, more likely).
SierraMike - You are right that it's not a beta issue, but I don't think it's a domineering issue, either. I think it's that the person gets uncomfortable when being offered help. I know I didn't go into too much info on my post (though it was oh, so very lenghty anyway) but I do believe that is more likely the deal. So, it's like an uncomfortable dynamic that will either get worked through or else it will get worse.... I'd prefer to work through it (so I don't have to set a boundary.....) but if I have to, I will address the issue. (YUCK!!!!)
I think the little figurative pimple really started to fester this last session, and next time it probably be at that "not quite ready to pop" stage - really irksome but stubbornly resistant (I know...that was a gross analogy). I guess we'll see how it goes, and if I have to, I guess the best tack is directness......
taino - No, you've not met this person......but as usual, you provide the simple, get to the point answer.....
crazygirl - I need to know (the ways to slowly transition!).....I am really stupid this way. Bright in some areas, but unbelieveably dense in others, particularly when it comes to interpersonal relations.....
All I can think of is to sort of try to introduce other climbers and get a little changeable belay tango thing going on, and eventually I'll just sashay away into the sunset....! But considering the shuted-downedness of this one when others come around, that's not going to be so easy to do.
Suck it up? Suck it UP!? Nooooo.....I don't think so. One night a week is 1/7 of the whole (and that's even with using defective logic!). That's like.... a big percentage of my life (what an ego I have sometimes...). I'm just (sorta) kidding.
Serioulsy, I don't think sucking it up is going to be a good idea for my own well-being. But, this thread has become very interesting to me. As usual, I came in complaining about someone else (an embarrassing quality to have, and i hope each day it will lessen) and through your responses, I am seeing that it is, in fact, all about me and the way I choose to handle these uncomfortable feelings I am having. Crud - now I have to change.....
That's what I get, asking for advice......advice! So, now I have to listen to you all and take it. I promise that I will do my best to broach the subject as it comes up. Ewww - I know it's silly, but this kind of stuff scares me.....
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changling
May 18, 2004, 5:23 PM
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In reply to: changling - I know that you have offered the best advice - to communicate....Yikes! I am not sure how to broach the subject. I don't think it's just as simple as "I want others to help, so you gotta let me let them." I guess the dynamic is a little more convoluted than that, and I am afraid of confrontation (or I am a control freak, more likely).
I know a lot of people who are afraid of confrontations. It's pretty normal, I guess. But you know, he might actually appreciate you telling him how you feel. As granite_grrl said, he might have the same issues with you, but also doesn't want a confrontation.
Just look at it this way, if you continue climbing with him, neither of you will be happy, and if you just disappear, it will make things akward if you bump into him again. If you confront him, things might either end in a good or bad note, but at least both sides of the party know what is going on, and from then on, you guys can decide whether it's worth continuing to climb together or not. So don't worry, because whatever happens, it will be in your best interest.
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keithlester
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May 18, 2004, 7:59 PM
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The guy sounds like an a$$. You can do better. You should do better, you obviously can make pals when he's not there, so pal up with somebody else, they couldn't be any worse, you might even meet me and I would be a great partner. :lol:
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bigjake
May 23, 2004, 7:05 AM
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This thread deserves a reply from a dude.
The guy has a thing for you. Plain and simple. Other guys come around and he gets protective of you. Especially if it's a guy that climbs much better than him, which sounds to be the case quite often. I see it at the crags all the time. The boyfriend is climbing with the girlfriend. A hot sh*t climbing dude comes along. Boyfriend says "Hey, let's get out of here now.". I've seen that happen even when the gal is tieing in for that redpoint she's been psyching up for, for the last 10 minutes. It's a real bummer to see that happen. Dudes can be like the crazed, alpha, male lions you see in nature shows. The ones trying to steal the pride from the old lion. Especially the young dudes. They can end up getting all hostile and sh*t, when around women. When I see that, I feel like saying "Yo dude, don't be a dick.".
-BJ
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raelinn
May 24, 2004, 1:08 AM
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um...
it's called the dumpster.
you don't need a man like that in your life sistah.
a. he's obviously got some serious issues and is openly being an a$$hole.
b. and more importantly, he is CONTROLLING you.
Honey... leave a bail biner on this route and get off!
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happiegrrrl
May 24, 2004, 3:18 AM
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In reply to: The guy has a thing for you..... Other guys come around and he gets protective of you.....
This morning I saw your post and my first reaction was "Nooooo - he's married...." but I hung out with him today (we'd hired a guide to show us anchor setup and stuff, and get some outdoor climbing in. What I'm doing setting up outings with a married person I maybe should be asking myself, except I will say in my defense that I had originally asked him as part of a trio along with the woman through whom I was introduced to this him, and when I made the suggestion, I had not noticed ANY indication of wierdness in this regard on his part. I really just thought "climbing partner.").
Anyway, of course we chatted quite a bit. I didn't intentionally lead the conversation to the topic of the "guys at the gym helping me" but it did come up quite out of the clear blue sky off a non-related tangent....
So now I have to say, as odd as it is, it does seem he feels some sort possesive entitlement about me, or at least my attention while at the gym. In what I thought was a quite hostile tome he said "I just hate it when, as soon as a girl enters the place, the guys all flock around her..." or something like that.
My jaw just about dropped over the remark. Frankly, I think the people who were talking to us were just being friendly and helpful. I have initiated conversations with most of these people in passing, and have likely have made comments about my climbing (in)abilities, so why wouldn't they feel comfortable in conversing with me and/or offer advise?
This new tidbit of info kind of skeeves me (a lot). But I missed the perfect opportunity to discuss it today. I guess I got afraid to stand up for myself. But, I think that I can bring it up again, even though it really feels very uncomfortable, by saying "you know that comment you made...?"
I am thinking that what may be going on is that he may be afraid he's going to loose the one climbing partner he was able to get set up. (He has said he felt it difficult to network in the group, and also made a comment of surprise that I seemed to know so many of the people so quickly, when he could barely put names to faces.) I really just can't believe it would be what you suggest. I have never made anything remotely like a flirtatious remark, getsure or attitude toward this guy.
It's funny, but unless we can work through this, he will have created a self-fullfilling prophecy.
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jt512
May 24, 2004, 3:30 AM
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In reply to: The boyfriend is climbing with the girlfriend. A hot sh*t climbing dude comes along. Boyfriend says "Hey, let's get out of here now."
Ah, now I understand. I thought I had BO or something.
-Jay
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timstich
May 24, 2004, 3:37 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: The boyfriend is climbing with the girlfriend. A hot sh*t climbing dude comes along. Boyfriend says "Hey, let's get out of here now." Ah, now I understand. I thought I had BO or something. -Jay
kokblocker 9000.
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bigjake
May 24, 2004, 7:17 AM
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BO?
Yea, that's what I was thinking about myself also. Especially when it seemed to always happen just after I would take my shirt off. Hmm, well, the shirt coming off probably played a part, I suppose. :lol:
-BJ
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keste
May 24, 2004, 9:00 PM
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Most people have been straight forward in their advice to dump this clumsy, passive-aggressive, possessive, defensive, controlling, hostile, anti-social partner with pattern recognition problems.
Until he deals with this better, his climbing abilities are going to be stunted since he can't learn from the people around him. Unfortunately, he will also prevent you from getting better, too.
In reality, its safer for you not to let some psychopath be your partner. If he rebuffs beta in the gym, will he be likely to listen if someone else wants to give advice for for a move that won't involve a possible inversion? the safe hike/descent to a climb? a better way to set that anchor? Will he accept help if he's injured? Will he seek aid if you are?
You really have only two options. Suck it up and spend the time it takes to turn him into a relatively normal climber; or not climb with him. If he's a good friend, spend the time; but if you climb outdoors with him, do so in a group.
We may not trust our partners to steal our gear, but we trust them with our lives.
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hotforclimbers
May 28, 2004, 5:27 AM
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I agree with most everyone on this thread to dump the dude and find a partner that's better suited to your personality and climbing style. Since you only climb with once a week, this shouldn't be too messy.
Someone else suggested bouldering as an alternative. This is a great idea to a) get stronger for power moves b) improve sequencing skills and footwork and c) MEET more people a.k.a. NEW PARTNERS!! I have used this technique myself in between partners and it works like a charm.
Hang in there! Hopefully, down the road, this guy will realize some of his shortcomings (after chronic partner-dumping) and change his not so savory ways.
P.S. Contrary to the tone of this posting I am not really a partner tramp!
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far_east_climber
May 28, 2004, 9:44 AM
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It sounds like this guy thinks he owns you and doesn't like seeing you take interest in other climbers other than himself (probably why you end up not interacting with others in the gym - like you said).
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