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a_scender
May 19, 2004, 1:59 AM
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Who likes 'em, who doesn't? What are some opinions on using the gri-gri for this kind of climbing? It seems that a lot of people use it this way, does anybody know of any aid soloing accidents involving the gri-gri?
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rossgoddard
May 19, 2004, 2:16 AM
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i have no experience with using a grigri to aid solo, but in the 2003 accidents in N.A. Mountaineering, there was a guy who ended up factor 2ing while using one for an aid solo on elcap, biner cross loaded and he took a big fall. Dont remember spicifics, but im sure someone has a copy of the book handy to fill it in
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asandh
May 19, 2004, 2:46 AM
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:)
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janiszewski11
May 19, 2004, 3:12 AM
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I suppose if you don't want metal on metal but still want to use a gri gri you could thread webbing through the gri gri and then attach to the harness with carabiners. Just a thought though.
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onelung
May 19, 2004, 3:17 AM
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Its works fine and with a backup knot perfectly safe. To keep from crossloading just find a beaner that wont. I went thru a shop tested several and found one. An autolocker that if crossloaded shifts and catches correctly. I would tell you what beaner but I am all packed and leave for the Valley in the AM.
Aloha,
bill
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lambone
May 19, 2004, 3:27 AM
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The DMM locker with the plastic piece works good too. There are like 10 different threads on evry climbing web site about soloing with a damn gri-gri...do a search.
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bigwalling
May 19, 2004, 4:05 AM
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Just use one of those super strong steel biners and you don't have to worry about these metal on metal things much.
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holdplease2
May 19, 2004, 4:14 AM
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What about the metal on the grigri itself? What are folks thoughts of that failing in a cross-loading situation on a steel biner?
-Kate.
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bigwalling
May 19, 2004, 4:20 AM
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A good steel locker is rated around 70 kNs, a regular locker is in the 20s. If you are worried about cross loading you can always use some duct tape.
I've used a attache (petzl) for a long time. I have never seen it in a cross loaded postiton, NEVER. But shit happens and seemly in the worst of times for some. I've taken a 50 foot fall onto it so metal on metal forget it. I'm far more worried about hitting a ledge.
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asandh
May 19, 2004, 4:26 AM
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:o
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galf
May 19, 2004, 4:44 AM
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In reply to: I know lots of unthinking climbers use the GriGri for ways NOT recommended by the manufacturer, and because they survive a time or two feel its ok. But manufacturers have authorized uses and procedures for a reason. Again - The Soloaid was specifically designed for solo aid climbing, and it has to do with more than just metal on metal. The soloaid offers a much more reliable lock down than the GriGri does when used solo. If you can't afford a SoloAid then use the old tried and true clove hitch method. Once you get used sliding the rope through the clove hitch, it goes pretty fast. A lot of us started solo aiding that way.
:cry: Snif! Snif! :cry: You make me cry.... BooHoooHoooo! :cry:
Are you a rep for Wren Industries or are you that tight-assed?
BTW, manufacturers say you will die :twisted:
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asandh
May 19, 2004, 5:05 AM
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:wink:
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galf
May 19, 2004, 6:34 AM
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In reply to: galf: well I'm definitely too tight for your little pencil, so stop trying to get me interested.
O....K..... You're the one seeing a sexual aspect to it..... Freak!
In reply to: I get it, 25 and never soloed a day of aid in your life, so your all bottled up.
In reply to: just give them both a try, take a few whippers on each and get back to me.
I won't try the soloaid (you thought you had a sale, [violet]rep-boy[/violet]...go buy one and compare... :roll: ). I believe this easiness of lowering after a fall is critical if I were to hit something and be somewhat confused.
It ain't easy from what I've been told to lower using a solo-aid.
I use a cloved hitch biner as a backup every 15-20 feet or so.
So, [violet]rep-boy[/violet], it seems you are alone on your little ivory tower while the vast majority of non-big-wall-theorists are soloing on Gri-Gris.
Oh, [violet]rep-boy[/violet], don't use only 2 cam lobes as a placement, the manufacturers say you can't.
[violet]Rep-boy[/violet], stay away from copperheads, they are not CE approuved.. you could get hurt!
I use home-made russian aiders.... what does the manufacturers say about that?!?
I laugh at you, [violet]REP-BOY[/violet]!!! for you are a troll :troll: (a pink one)
Cheers,
Guillaume
edited for spelling mistakes
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epic_ed
May 19, 2004, 8:10 AM
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Easy, guys. Let's just have a discussion of the merits/liabilities of the gri gri for soloing. Keep the personal stuff out of it.
I use a gri gri and am full aware of the problems and weakness involved. And I think that's the key -- you need to be aware of the limits and weaknesses your solo system has. Each has its own, and each can be compensated for to a degree, and in the end, the climber needs to decide which risks are acceptable.
I understand the concern about the biner getting cross-loaded. My main concern with using the gri gri is that the attachment point isn't redundant. There's only one hole to clip on the gri gri and only one biner will fit through it. Even with a steel biner, if the gri gri gets cross loaded it can twist and deform the body of the gri gri to the point of failure. We're also well aware of the accident you're referring to on El Cap in '03. That was our very own "Mr. Hardgrit" (Tom) who was the party involved. He experienced the worst type of fall in just about the worst case imaginable -- a high factor fall (nearly factor 2) onto a cross loaded biner. It snapped the biner and nearly twisted the gri gri off the rope. He's alive today because of the backup knot he tied, which must be part of the safety system when soloing with a gri gri.
Soloing with a gri gri and a backup knot tied at proper intervals is safe enough for me.
Ed
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imnotclever
May 19, 2004, 12:44 PM
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In reply to: Even with a steel biner, if the gri gri gets cross loaded it can twist and deform the body of the gri gri to the point of failure. Ed
It looks to me, from the pictures of the Trango Cinch that it is a little stronger at the connection than the Gri Gri. Has anybody seen these things yet and compaired?
Any thoughts?
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tedc
May 19, 2004, 3:18 PM
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In reply to: I know lots of unthinking climbers use the GriGri for ways NOT recommended by the manufacturer, and because they survive a time or two feel its ok.
Who is the "unthinking climber"?; the one who blindly follows the mfgr recommendations or the one who "figures out" a safe reliable way to use a piece of gear to perform a task better.
In reply to: But manufacturers have authorized uses and procedures for a reason.
Yep. LIABILITY.
Only guessing (but I'm sure I'm right). More people have been hurt/killed using a Gri-Gri in an "authorized" manner than by using it to solo-aid.
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ricardol
May 19, 2004, 3:33 PM
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grigri is fine for me for aid-soloing ..
back it up often ..
.. i've taken 5 falls while aid soloing on a grigri .. and all were handled just fine .. one was even an inverted fall .. (almost head first) ..
what i do to make sure i have good chances of survival:
1 - lead on a yates 65mx11mm big wall rope
2 - tie a knot backup ..
3 - use a DMM belay master ..
the last step (dmm belay master) i believe is the weak link in the system .. the little plastic piece would come flying out of the locker if it was ever loaded (i doint think it would help) .. and the DMM locker HAS broken in the past when crossloaded by our own Mr Hardgrit ..
.. so just make sure you tie a back up knot ..
... using a clove hitch to lead would be slower IMO ..
.. all the other methods for solo-aiding are either expensive, bulky, or reequire more gear .. (ie a chest harness) .. so i went for what to me is a good compromise ..
-- ricardo
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twoliter
May 19, 2004, 5:27 PM
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On an aid route I use a Gri for jugging, belaying, and self belay. Heck If I left it on my rope when I was leading (on belay) I could leave the gri on the rope all day long. It so multi functional.
I use a small steel triangle piece with a screw gate (not a hinged gate) instead of a locking biner to fasten the gri. Its a bit more to set up but I feel if realy minimizes the cross loading issue. That said if you dont lock the triangle manualy it stay totally open. :o
I attach the gri to my belay loop instead of the swamy and leg loops. This lets the gri hang free instead of fixing it in one position. I allso find this lets me pull slack with one hand... TFastening the gri into the belay loop increases your fall potential by a few inches and the gri is a bit higher when jugging.
Allways back up the gri with knots, I use a figure eight on a bite to a locker on my belay loop (under the gri).
I have heard that a gri will not take an upside down fall, any comments on this issue?
I passed a guy bailing off Monkey Face (smith rocks) who had just taken a 40 footer because his SoloAid did not catch, he finally stopped on his back up knot. Or so he said.
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ricardol
May 19, 2004, 6:57 PM
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In reply to: I have heard that a gri will not take an upside down fall, any comments on this issue? I passed a guy bailing off Monkey Face (smith rocks) who had just taken a 40 footer because his SoloAid did not catch, he finally stopped on his back up knot. Or so he said.
i took a fall that had me turned over (so i was looking down to the ground, and almost horizontal .. (not upside down .. but turned over and rotated) ..
the grigri stopped just fine .. and righted me ..
scariest falll i've taken! -- sucks to see the ground rushing up to meet you.
-- ricardo
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bigwalling
May 19, 2004, 11:32 PM
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My 50 footer was a full blown head first fall.
Did anyone ever see that Masters of the Stone with Dano rope jumping with the gri gri?
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jello
May 20, 2004, 12:30 AM
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Thumbs up to the gri :righton:
don't forget to back yourself up!
a steel biner is the call.
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megableem
May 20, 2004, 2:37 AM
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lambone
May 20, 2004, 5:52 AM
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hehehe...that's kinda funny.
uhm, yeah. I like the gri-gri cause you use it for jugging, hauling, rapping, belaying, hanging, out at the anchor and everything else.
One device that does it all is the ticket, less shit to carry down. It has caught me several times, so no complaints. If it ever fails me I'll thow it off El Cap and go clove hitch.
Free climbing kinda sucks with it though, throw out a bunch of slack and hold on tight!
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slabbyd
May 20, 2004, 5:09 PM
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The Gri-Gri uses folded metal to creat a quasi-multi-directional fall-breaking device. If you cut off the flange of metal to allow easier rope feeding you increase the possibility of it not locking up. Clearly lots of wall climbers use a Gri-Gri and rarely does it result in accidents but the potential for total equipment failure is much higher than other pieces of equipment. I never fully trusted the thing.
I forked out the $$$ for a Silent Partner and love it. In most part because I trust it. One less thing to worry about makes me climb that much better. Rope feed is exceptional as well, a good thing when you need to bust those end of pitch mandatory free moves in less than perfect foot wear.
The down side is the need for additonal equipment for rapping. But once you develop and practice the systems it seems irrelevant. Furthermore I've never noticed the difference between 80lbs of gear and 80lb 6oz of gear!
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ricardol
May 20, 2004, 6:14 PM
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gotta agree that busting the free moves with a grigri is one of those heart-stopping moments ..
.. nothing like feeding out 20' of rope through the device prior to moving on 5.6 ground with no pro for the next 20' and wearing hiking boots.. oh ..and carrying a full aid-rack ..
*sigh* -- thats a good time!
-- ricardo
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