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moeman
May 12, 2004, 11:21 PM
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Learning to aid climb, and need to buy aiders and daisies. I've already decided to get Yates Wall Ladders, but am as of yet unsure about what brand of adjustable daisies to buy. I am definately going to use adjustable daisies, not traditional daisies. So what kind should I get? The basic choices are Yates, Metolius, Fish, and Petzl. I'm leaning towards the Yates for no particular reason other than Yates's good reputation. So what have you used, and how well did they work? And more importantly, what kind should I buy?
Note: Don't tell me to use the forum search feaure. I tried that and could not find any relevant information. I have also looked in the gear reviews section, and that was not very helpful.
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epic_ed
May 12, 2004, 11:47 PM
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I just bought the Yates a couple of months ago. I wanted something a little beefier than the Metolius I had been using. I think the Yates are a little short -- in fact, someone else mentioned this in another discussion. If you want the ancra buckle-type, then go with the Fish since they are longer and he'll send you replacement webbing for cheap. Maybe I'm just used to my old Metolius, but I think prefer them over the Yates. They are weaker, but they are lower-profile and I seemed to get them tangled less than I have with my Yates. I dunno. We'll see how fast I can wear out the Yates, I'll see if I get used to them, and then I'll be able to decided if I'm going to get another set of ancra-buckle type daisies (probably Fish if I do) or go back to the Metolius.
My experience has been that I liked the Metolius, and even through they are weaker, I've never had one fail.
Ed
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spike
May 12, 2004, 11:53 PM
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I am on my 2nd pair of Yates Adjustable Daisys --- they are great.
The last time I ordered them from Yates I called them up and had them custom made 3" longer.
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ricardol
May 12, 2004, 11:59 PM
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i have both yates & metolious ..
yates updated their buckle so the reason i stopped using yates should be moot by now -- which was that i had them slip on me after only a few pitches ..
.. metolious are nice ..
-- ricardo
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timpanogos
May 13, 2004, 12:15 AM
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My poor yates are battered - They never slipped on me, and I just retired them this spring because of how tattered they are - I loved them.
However, 2nd steppinng - with as high as you can reach placements will leave you short on reaching placement. Having yates put 3" on is a great idea - that's exactly about the worse case too short I had encountered.
Anyway, the fish are super long, which I have found to be very handy (anchors etc).
Yates will get you about 2" closer to the pro than fish - but I adjustable fifi when needed so this is not an issue for me. Besides, the 3 to 4" away from pro is about perfect (for me) for 2nd stepping the ladders - or top ringing the russians - where you need to let out the yates a bit if you have cinched it up tight on third steps.
I've found the extra inches makes a bit of a handle to hold onto as you step up if you have no hands on the wall.
I've got a brand new pair of metolius I'd sell - never used - no desire after getting used to the easily releasable - under load - yates/fish style.
Chad
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bigwalling
May 13, 2004, 1:28 AM
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Adjustables are a pain, I have only had problems with them. Sometimes old is truly better.
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ricardol
May 13, 2004, 4:03 PM
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the funny thing about thinking about adj. daisies .. is that i hardly ever yard on them ..
i always haul my ass up with the adj. fifi ..
.. i use the adj. daisy when the move is so steep or far away that i can't remove the fifi from the previous piece ..
.. then again .. i'm slow like molasses .. so maybe this is why..
-- ricardo
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timpanogos
May 13, 2004, 8:14 PM
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Ricardo,
I used to use my fifi a lot more. I tend to use it more on cleaning now than climbing, and even here, the piece must be severely loaded. If I'm setting pro from the 3rd steps and it's a blank - no hands type of move - I suck up my fifi.
Sounds like you might want to join the normal daisy dudes – either your fifi line is very long (my max length is only about 2 feet) or you climb your ladders/wall without assist from adjustable daisy.
I wonder about those that do not use Adjustables (I think Ammon or his partner does not) what their exact technique is – I assume the speed climbers are French freeing the actual pro and mostly on the wall – clipping/weighting a loop for gear adjustment/rest – using aiders when moves are hard.
I suppose I’m in a rut – placing, clipping adjustable, and cinching/winching myself up with it. – it does work the hands/arms maybe more than I should – plus the fear factor – the psychological security of staying a short lease to the new piece. I’ve found I’ve moved from spending lots of time on/in the ladders to lots of time hanging on my daisy – maybe this is bad (from a speed standpoint)? Maybe next progression is for me to clip adjustable, but climb on up there and hook fifi, with it preset to the right length for high stepping – leaving adj extended to original reach length, get gear ready hanging on fifi – jump in high steps and repeat.
It seems that using an adjustable, but just not cinching it – unless needed/wanted would be the same as using standard daisies? Sucking in slack has got to be as fast (faster) than selecting/clipping the right loop?
Chad
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ricardol
May 13, 2004, 8:19 PM
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my adj. fifi is long enough to to reach above my head with an extended arm ..
.. i try to always place from the 2nd step .. its scarier that way.
chad: good luck on the ranch! -- when are you leaving the valley? -- i'll be in for memorial day weekend..
-- ricardo
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timpanogos
May 13, 2004, 8:29 PM
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I just finished up what work I'm going to get done - and I'm ready to start packing the car
Got most of my big wall food shopping done - need a few odds and ends - gears are sorted, marked and ready - tie-offs, keepers, food buckets - dang it takes a lot of preperation to gear up for something like this
guess that's have the fun of aid - right?
After your story from last year (stolen gear) I inventoried and took pictures of all of mine which preparing - damn - impressed myself with the amount of shetz it takes
Anyway, I may leave tonight, or first thing in the morning ...
FWIW - your fifi is much to long - and sucking up the fifi with 6mil cord - verses sucking up with the 1" webbing has got to be harder. Out of curiosity, how come you do this?
Chad
p.s.
I've got to be back to work June 1st - so I will head home 31st or so
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ricardol
May 13, 2004, 9:35 PM
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cool -- maybe i'll run into you on memorial day -- i'll leave a msg on pete's answering machine that weekend
-- ricardo
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ricardol
May 13, 2004, 9:40 PM
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In reply to: FWIW - your fifi is much to long - and sucking up the fifi with 6mil cord - verses sucking up with the 1" webbing has got to be harder. Out of curiosity, how come you do this? Chad
.. it probably is harder (definately harder on the hand) -- after yarding on the 6mm cord for 4 days on zodiac i developed a nice cut in my hand from the abrassion of the cord .. (through gloves too!) .. i had to then modify how i pulled myself up ..
.. i guess i did it because it was simpler than yarding on the fifi for getting up close .. and also yarding on the adj. daisy to get up the steps .. (and then having to undo both afterwards) ..
.. so when i could away with only using 1 adj. item .. i did .. (which is most of the time) ..
-- ricardo
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russwalling
May 13, 2004, 11:11 PM
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**It seems that using an adjustable, but just not cinching it – unless needed/wanted would be the same as using standard daisies? Sucking in slack has got to be as fast (faster) than selecting/clipping the right loop?**
The key with regular daisy chains (which I use exclusively) is I use it at full length to place the piece and test in my aiders (not a daisy test) then I IMMEDIATELY walk up the aiders to the second steps and clip in at my waist. I slip a hand behind the aiders as it is stiff and gives better leverage to hike up there better than grab loops (I don't use these either). It is pretty rare that I select any other pockets besides the end one unless it is awkward or hard aid. Fast and efficient. No intermediate clipping, winching, sight seeing or other BS.
Chad: live it , learn it, love it..... (I mean if you live....)
Good luck man!
Russ
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bigwalling
May 13, 2004, 11:16 PM
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Traditional Daisys are the way to go. Forget the fifi on all but the steep stuff or at least the adjustable. Russ describes using the traditionals well.
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dsafanda
May 14, 2004, 3:45 AM
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I'm torn. I've grown weary of adjustables for leading and think I'd like to go back to regualr daisys. However, I just love adjustable daisys for jugging/cleaning. On a pitch that alternates between slab, steeps or buldges, adjustable daisys allow you to quickly perfectly fine tune distances between ascender and yourself on the fly.
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the_dude
May 14, 2004, 4:46 AM
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I've had great luck with the Metolius. Aid climbing is always a clusterf#$% no matter what you do. The Metolius work great when thery're running straight. Almost every aid peice puts a twist in your system. If you correct the twisting aider/daisy at each peice there is no problem. People say you can't traverse with the metolious aiders or you can't get slack on a weighted peice.. I call bullshit on that. Never had a problem in any situation with met. Daisies.
Cheers
The Dude
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sspssp
May 15, 2004, 7:27 PM
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In reply to: I am on my 2nd pair of Yates Adjustable Daisys --- they are great. The last time I ordered them from Yates I called them up and had them custom made 3" longer.
How long are your arms? The regular length Yates Adjustable is longer than I can extend my arm (and I'm six feet tall). In fact, I was wishing they were about 2 or 3 inches shorter so they wouldn't hang so low when I wanted to switch to doing a move or two free.
It's good to know they will custom make them. Each really can be to their own.
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sspssp
May 16, 2004, 4:21 PM
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They could be 3 inches shorter and I could still fully extend my arm to clip a piece. So I wouldn't say the size is bad, but 3 inches shorter would still work and would mean they would dangle that much shorter when trying to bust a free move or two.
So not at all bad, but I still don't see why somebody is needing them 3 inches longer. Is the guy seven feet tall, or has his daisy rigged differently. Something sure seems strange.
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coclimber26
May 16, 2004, 5:11 PM
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You can't go wrong with the yates daisy and aiders. I have a Pika and have no complaints so far.
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twoliter
May 18, 2004, 8:50 PM
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The big gain with the Yates is the strengh and being able to lower yourself out (yes with your weight on the adj daisey). This is great for roofs, traverses, and giving yourself anouther inch when youve pulled tight on your daisey when top stepping. I even use a Yates adj on the haul bag for lowering it off the anchor. The only negative I have with the Yates is it takes alot of energy to release the cam and extend (especially for a couple of days straight)
The Metolius are fast, light, and very efficient, but they have a low strenght rating and must be totally unweighted prior to being able to extend.
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dsafanda
May 19, 2004, 1:25 PM
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In reply to: I even use a Yates adj on the haul bag for lowering it off the anchor.
Yep. Do the same thing. A spare Yates adj works great as a haulbag tie in. Ofcoarse, I still back it up with the haul line but for getting the pig on to and off the belay station the adjustable is very convenient.
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