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tech_dog
May 28, 2004, 11:49 PM
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I just went to REI for a few odds and ends, and was on the recieving side of quite a bit of bad advice from a salesperson who didn't know what they were talking about. Don't you hate it when a salesperson who knows nothing tries to snow you, especially when it's about LIFE SUPPORT equipment? I'm sure there are plenty of good REI salespeople, and you guys need to tell the others to limit their advice to within their expertise.
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xclimber
May 28, 2004, 11:58 PM
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Verily... You expect that sort of thing at Sports Authority/Popular Outdoor, but not at a specialty shop. Our local outdoor store often has a dearth of climbing knowledgable salesfolk, but usually don't try to snow you. x
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shorty
May 29, 2004, 12:10 AM
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In reply to: I'm sure there are plenty of good REI salespeople, and you guys need to tell the others to limit their advice to within their expertise. Given the size of the both the company and their stores, REI will probably never be known as the all-knowing source for climbing information. Those of us who are fortunate enough to have true climbing specialty shops in our area understand this issue. You bring up a good point, but have you considered sending this same message to the management of the REI store you visited? I suspect more REI employees will get the message through staff meetings than through this forum.
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coldclimb
May 29, 2004, 12:34 AM
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Here we go again. :lol: I have a friend who works in a skate shop. She knows nothing at all about skating. She's there for the money. The fact that she probably couldn't tell you the difference between a deck a set of trucks does not in any way reflect on how good the store is. Just don't ask her for advice on how to kickflip. ;) REI isn't the place to find advice. For that, a guide is best. It's just a gear shop, and the best one of those that I have ever seen.
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jt512
May 29, 2004, 12:35 AM
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In reply to: I just went to REI for a few odds and ends, and was on the recieving side of quite a bit of bad advice from a salesperson who didn't know what they were talking about. Don't you hate it when a salesperson who knows nothing tries to snow you, especially when it's about LIFE SUPPORT equipment? I'm sure there are plenty of good REI salespeople, and you guys need to tell the others to limit their advice to within their expertise. I used to get frustrated as hell with REI salespeople. Eventually, I accepted that most of them are not climbers, are poorly trained, and have little knowledge about climbing equipment. I don't think I've ever had a question about climbing equipment adequately answered by an REI salesperson; usually they just guess at the answer, which is worse than just saying they don't know. So, I stopped asking. -Jay
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tech_dog
May 29, 2004, 12:43 AM
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In reply to: You bring up a good point, but have you considered sending this same message to the management of the REI store you visited? I suspect more REI employees will get the message through staff meetings than through this forum. Good point. I should have. I did correct the employee, and let him know that I was angry that he was giving unsolicited advice that could have been dangerous to someone who was just starting out. I'll mention it next time I'm in there, which won't be long. I'm not looking for advice... just inventory.
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xclimber
May 29, 2004, 12:57 AM
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Have you tried "Live Help" on their website? x
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tech_dog
May 29, 2004, 1:03 AM
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In reply to: Have you tried "Live Help" on their website? x I wasn't even looking for any info. I knew exactly what I wanted, was gathering it up, and began getting unsolicited and incorrect advice.
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tech_dog
May 29, 2004, 1:03 AM
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In reply to: Have you tried "Live Help" on their website? x I wasn't even looking for any info. I knew exactly what I wanted, was gathering it up, and began getting unsolicited and incorrect advice.
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climbfrog
May 29, 2004, 1:27 AM
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I can see your point tech_dog. I used to work at REI myself. I however, believe, or at least like to believe, that I know what I'm talking about. I guess thats the reason why I work in a climbing specialty shop at the moment. While working at REI I've done staff clinics. Before I left the company, I wanted to do another one, but they didnt give me the time of day. I understand that selling climbing gear should be done by people who know what they are doing and thats it! However, this sales person may have a little knowledge, but a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!!! I wouldn't go as far as blamming the sales person, but more the management for not getting the staff properly trained. And even then, if you're in an area where it's mostly indoor gyms, I wouldn't really expect to have anyone with a lot of "rock sence" selling me gear. The other side of the responsibility goes to the consumer as well. If you as a consumer plans on buying the gear, and using the gear, then you should know how to use it, and be knowledgeable about its dangers as well. It seems in this case you are very knowledgeable, as this is why you know you were being given bad advice. Don't depend on a sales person to teach you anything. So, the responsibility goes both ways. I do not know the whole story and I would love to know it! Saying that the sales person was giving you bad advice is kind of vague. What was the bad advice? Please don't take this the wrong way. Just trying to help is all tech_dog!
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tech_dog
May 29, 2004, 1:36 AM
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1) They were out of the locking carabiner I was planning on buying. He suggested a much smaller one, but I indicated that I wanted one the same as my others, so that I could double them up when I needed to. He said that I could double up using the smaller biner with my bigger biner, and it wouldn't matter that the two were different sizes. If I used two biners of significantly different sizes, all the weight would be on one of them, and the other would be holding no weight, and could twist, jam, or move in other unpredictable ways. 2) He said that doubling up didn't matter anyway, as even the weakest non-locking biner was more than enough to hold any fall. While he's probably right about the rated strength, but making that statement to a new climber could cause them to stop using lockers or doubling up in appropriate situations. 3) He said that a single tied web sling was sufficient for a top-rope anchor. Same as #2. It may be true based on rated strength, but it's very bad practice to leave yourself hanging on a single tied sling. Am I over reacting? I think this is all very bad advice to give.
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cgailey
May 29, 2004, 1:41 AM
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I am an rei employee and I know EXACTLY what you are talking about. Thankfully we have climbing specialists that work specifically in the climbing department who are all avid and experienced climbers. Unfortunately they cannot be there all of the time. When suzy clueless (no gender bias) decides to try to sell you something she knows nothing about, things can get ugly. I have worked with too many people who have no clue what they are talking about and really have no desire to learn. It is unfortunate, but also reality. In a company as large as REI you are bound to find ignorance and more unfortunately the inability to recognize and rectify ignorance. REI use to be much better about monitoring the salespeople working in a department, but with the growth of the company and the popularity of outdoor sports, it doesn't happen as much as it should. Sorry you had a bad experience. There is a wealth of GOOD advice on the REI website called "expert advice" that is worth checking out while shopping for gear.
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jt512
May 29, 2004, 2:15 AM
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In reply to: I am an rei employee and I know EXACTLY what you are talking about. Thankfully we have climbing specialists that work specifically in the climbing department who are all avid and experienced climbers. Some of REI's climbing specialists with whom I've dealt didn't know squat about climbing. -Jay
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ropeburn
May 29, 2004, 2:23 AM
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In reply to: Don't you hate it when a salesperson who knows nothing tries to snow you, especially when it's about LIFE SUPPORT equipment? I hate it when anyone tries to snow me... :lol:
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rokshoxbkr19
May 29, 2004, 2:28 AM
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REI SUX!!! So do all stores with initials for names!!! I hate REI and their patagucci lines of clothing.
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climbfrog
May 29, 2004, 6:17 AM
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Tech_dog, that guy was an idiot! Thats all there is to it. Obviously that person doesnt do much climbing, if they do, they're gonna die! Rokshox, You probably own lots of gear by the man who owns that company you poke fun of and call "patagucci". He's done a lot more for climbing than any of us can ever dream of doing!
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fadeux
May 29, 2004, 6:47 AM
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I bought a Petzl Corax Harness at REI, and three different people told me three different things about where to tie/clip in. I actually argued with one of them, (Dont get me wrong, Im brand new to climbing) but, anyway, he told me the exact opposite of what the PETZL INSTRUCTIONS Said, then when i showed him, he proceeded to tell me they dont know what they are talking about... I found that a bit odd. Anywho, no matter what anyone tells me, im going with what petzl says...
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imnotbob
May 29, 2004, 1:14 PM
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I guess I'll jump in here too: I've come to learn that no matter where you go, no one's advise is the absolute truth. I won't get into the poor advise I have received on more that one occasion at REI (I've also received some good advice too) BUT... when I called the nearest store (200 miles away) and ask about a product being in stock and they say they have plenty so I drive down and the sales person on the floor says "we haven't carried those in over a year" - that's just bad business. I will remain a member to climb their wall, try on and test products when I visit their stores but my $$$ will be going elsewere.
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thomaskeefer
May 29, 2004, 2:10 PM
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Here is a funny REI story.. Same day.. Went to get a new harness after my pack fell off the back of a flatbed I was travelling in. Also, my wife wanted a down jacket... So... she goes to the jackets and me to the 'climbing specialists' and this was in san diego so there are no shortage of people to hire who know what they are talking about.. As I hung from the climbing wall from the belay/rap loop on a misty caddilac the ever so omnipotent girl with the euro-trash glasses walks over in a panic~ 'what are you doing?' she blurts out.. Ahhh.. comparing these two harnesses and wanted to see which is more comfy. (here comes more great info so listen up!) 'Well you know, that is not for 'hanging by' and is only to hold the leg harnesses to the waist' I said Oh.. thanks for saving me from a 2 ft ground fall and by the way, i told her, you should really write to petzl about this since they call it a belay and rappel loop' Turns out that the loop in question can be safely used for belaying but not rapellling but that you really should not use it for either because it is not that strong. When I told her that it was the strongest part of the harness and that you could indeed hang from it and that in fact I had done so for years on the last harness I had without even so much as a slight abrasion and that you should tie in to climb through both the legs and the waist to climb but that rap and belay were desgined to be done from ther she just stared down at the green vest of power and told me I was unsafe and did not know what I was talking about.. since there were only a few seconds left of my patience, I asked her is tri-loading a locking biner was safe was safe and she in fact said no.. I asked her to she could possibly rappel clipped through the legs and waist and not load the biner three ways.. in here normal informative tone she just let me know that 'it doesnt' Ok now for more learning... I find my wife and tell her the story.. she then asks me if this tiny little jacket by sierra designs could be more warm that the huge TNF nupste jacket.. I said no way but it turns out that with the help of the girl from womens clothing that that the Sierra jacket was going to be warmer even though it only has 10% of the fill weight of the nuptse.. why yoy might ask?? The sierra has 800 feathers in it and the TNF had only 600.. I asked her if she had ever heard of fill weight and then to figure it out and report that to her friend with glasses (the climbing expert) and we were off, nupste in hand.. I am glad that I am not actually in the place where I have to beleive anything that they are saying is true.. REI management should step in.. in san diego at least, the folks at Nomad really know what they are talking about for the most part..what is REI missing? Oh and about the clinics.. one was given by an attorney on adventure racing.. he talked for over an hour on stuff that was not really on the mark.. I asked him some questions later and it turned out his resume included only one short race.. which he did not finish.. so there is the quality of your lectures!
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fadeux
May 29, 2004, 5:34 PM
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Yeah, the belay loop was actually exactly what we were talking about. I couldnt believe it. I showed him the petzl instructions, and a caption in climbing gear mag. he said they were wrong. I then asked him how many harness he has made for a living, he didnt understand. Anyway, like i said, its probably always the safest to go with the manufacturer, they're the ones whos butts are on the line.
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stick233
May 29, 2004, 8:17 PM
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I worked at the REI in Seattle for awhile. There were clinics on a weekly basis to teach about the gear we were selling. There were also mor than enough climbers working at the store to adequately work the department. Sometimes on a short day a non-climber would be put in the climbing dept., but for the most part it was well staffed. At a store of that size (over 450 employees in that store alone) there is going to be a time when the best people are not going to be on the floor. As a department though, we tried to keep our knowledge at the highest level and give the best advice without BSing anyone. I think we accomplished it pretty well. When people work a department they are not used to, I agree that they should not try to sell a particular item they are not familiar with, rather provide the buyer with the basic item information (price etc.) I never tried to sell bikes by getting technical because I knew nothing about them. The best philosophy is "If I don't know the answer, I'll find someone that will"
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claramie
May 29, 2004, 8:39 PM
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I work in the climbing department at REI in Tempe, AZ. I agree with the person who replied that you should contact the store manager. Nothing excuses bad advice on safety gear, but the manager should be willing to try to satisfy you and make it so that doesn't happen to anyone else. CL PS. Plenty of stores have climbing depts staffed with experienced climbers.
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braaaaaaaadley
May 29, 2004, 9:44 PM
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In reply to: Rokshox, You probably own lots of gear by the man who owns that company you poke fun of and call "patagucci". He's done a lot more for climbing than any of us can ever dream of doing! To add... also the dude (and an awesome dude at that) that started patagoina also started the company that became black diamond... now surely you own something made by good old bd.
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fredo
May 29, 2004, 11:02 PM
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Sigh......This is not an REI issue. I have also had numerous issues with the REI sales staff and have been as frustrated. As stated in an earlier post, blame the management, not the person. Last year I went to Mountain Gear, a quick 3hr drive from Missoula, because I was fed up wth sales persons(s) (except a few) knowing their stuff. I was hoping to find a knowledgable sales staff. What i found was the exact same thing...."well, you should buy this harness because Petzel is the best"...okay, why are they the best, and do you own one "Knaw, I only boulder, but a bunch of people I know swear by them."..that is an exact quote. So I wrote a letter etc,etc, etc.... The bottom line is this...Do your home work. My wife knows more about climbing gear than most of the sales staff around Missoula. She hardly climbs but has taken enough interest in climbing to get what she wants for the money she spends....it ain't that hard...and, if that is not enough, then do not spend money at that store...
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