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girlbrasil
Jun 11, 2004, 12:07 AM
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a couple of weeks ago I was climbing with my sister at lovers leap.after a couple of climbs on the east wall we decided to cool off in the river.on our way back near the campground we stopped to warm down on the pony express trail boulders.we took off our soaked shorts and just climbed in our underwear.two women came up and started giving us grief.they said we were lame,and we were "grandstanding"(what the hell does this mean?)they said it was stupid and maybe illegal??!!!
on memorial weekend my sister and I decided to raft down the east fork of the carson river on our old raft for the last time (we bought new).when we were pulling up to the hot spring my sister took off her PFD and lit up a smoke.some guy came running over to tell her to keep her PFD on until she was on dry land,and wanted to know if he was getting stuck cleaning up cigarette butts from the rivers edge. we just tried to ignore him.we jumped in the hot spring to relax and he came right over and started asking a bunch of questions.we told him we were planning a trip down the middle fork of the american.he said "NO YOUR NOT". he was trying to feel us out to see what kind of experience we had(the whole time he was starring at my sisters breasts) we decided to get as far away from him and his posse as possible.as we were trying to get away he said he was planning a big trip down the middle fork and we should leave our phone number on his truck at the take out so we could join him(so now we are his buddies??)
my question is this,why would some one come up to a complete stranger
and start telling them what they can and cannot do? does this happen to other women as well? I have only been here for a few years and english is my 3rd language.I am a bit reluctant to get into an argument when I dont speak so good.
mar
the moment slipped by and soon the seeds were sown
the year grew late and neither one wanted to remain alone
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paija
Jun 11, 2004, 1:12 AM
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Registered: Jun 2, 2004
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It's not just to women. This is a generalization but I've found that in some parts of the country (US), people are more nosy than in other parts. On the East coast I couldn't even go for a hike without everyone I met on the trail asking me where I was going and what my plans were. I guess I'm used to people just saying hello and then carrying on, without interrogating me. Once I had just reached the summit of a VT, uh, mountain (it was tiny) and this guy burst out of a hut and started interrogating me and my (male) partner about where we had come from and where we were going. He put on a big jovial happy face but I got the feeling he was trying to catch us out on something, even though we were just hiking and minding our own business. I got fed up with that stuff really quickly!
However, sometimes you might be doing something dangerous or illegal, and maybe the person talking to you is just trying to help you out or keep you from getting in trouble. It's probably best to know what the regulations are in any given place so you know when to tell people to stick it if they give you any problems.
If people got on you for climbing in your undies, though, they were probably just jealous :D
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nextascent
Jun 11, 2004, 4:26 AM
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Registered: May 15, 2004
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Hmmm, I'm not sure if I touch this one...but what the heck. As for how you climb? (what you wear/don't wear) that is your business totally and as long as you're comfortable with it, so be it. The only thing I'd likely share with you is that you should not be shocked or troubled if people are looking/staring. You mention a lot of different issues, but for starters, what people look at.....
I'll give this the the alternate spin. Guy climbing without his shirt...I look. If he's toned, cut, nice back, I look again. Why? Because he's given me that option.
As for the "grandstanding" comment? 8^) They're saying that you're purposely trying to attract attention.
The cigarette butt? A lot of people have strong passion for leaving as small of a footprint as possible on nature and if you leave your ciggy out there you not only can disrupt that, but in the West, you have the potential for starting a fire.
The guy was looking as sis's breasts.....well are they nice? (back to the earlier comment). Human nature, everyone looks....just sounds like you noticed it more with him, or he was very "un" subtle.
Lisa
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changling
Jun 11, 2004, 5:09 PM
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In reply to: we took off our soaked shorts and just climbed in our underwear.two women came up and started giving us grief.they said we were lame,and we were "grandstanding"(what the hell does this mean?)they said it was stupid and maybe illegal??!!!
From your name, I'm guessing you're from Brazil? Well, North Americans tend to be a lot more conservative. Even though there was no nudity involved, somehow, being in underwear is different then being in a bikini, even though they both cover just as much. It's just a cultural thing.
In reply to: when we were pulling up to the hot spring my sister took off her PFD and lit up a smoke.some guy came running over to tell her to keep her PFD on until she was on dry land,and wanted to know if he was getting stuck cleaning up cigarette butts from the rivers edge.
The PDF thing could have been a safety concern. And the cigarette comment? Well, I don't like smokers either and I'm pretty rude to them too because them smoking affects me, no matter how much they try to say that it doesn't.
In reply to: as we were trying to get away he said he was planning a big trip down the middle fork and we should leave our phone number on his truck at the take out so we could join him(so now we are his buddies??)
I would label him a "weirdo". Or maybe he just had a crush on you guys and tried to get to know you guys better without making it seem too obvious.
My advice to you is to take such things as a grain of salt, that's only if you are completely sure that what you are doing is allowed where you are. There are strange people everywhere. Just sit back and enjoy the freak show.
In reply to: Once I had just reached the summit of a VT, uh, mountain (it was tiny) and this guy burst out of a hut and started interrogating me and my (male) partner about where we had come from and where we were going. He put on a big jovial happy face but I got the feeling he was trying to catch us out on something, even though we were just hiking and minding our own business.
He was just being friendly. I hike in the Adirondacks all the time and most people are really friendly and like a bit of chit chat. I don't mind it at all. It's nice sometimes to talk to these people, and you can get recomendations for other nice hikes, or vice versa. Or they can have an interesting story to tell, or offer advice on whether there is a bear in an area where you are camping, or whether an upcoming bridge has been washed out or something. Just cheer up and open up a bit. Some people are just more social than others.
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paija
Jun 13, 2004, 4:36 AM
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Registered: Jun 2, 2004
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nooooo, he really was just trying to catch us out for camping where we shouldn't, or stepping on the wrong plants, or something. If he was just being friendly he wouldn't have needed to interrogate us at 7am. Believe me, he was being a trail nazi, not just being friendly. I had to pretend I didn't speak English to get him to leave us alone.
I don't go out for hikes to be social. I sure don't feel the need to chat it up with every single person I meet. A quick hello is just fine by me. It's pretty rude to ask a complete stranger where they are going, IMO. Just like it's rude to run up to a complete stranger and offer an impromptu PFD lesson.
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willingspirit
Jun 13, 2004, 1:53 PM
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American men tend to stare at women's breasts more than men from many other countries do. That particular body part is sexualized here more than in many other places. If you are here long enough you will notice it in many areas (Female executives have complained that their male counterparts will be looking at their breasts, rather than making eye contact, even in the workplace...one of the many reasons for our sexual harrassment rules and training)
You'll notice, if you look for it, that in countries where women go topless on the beach, any American male tourists will be staring, taking photos, etc. The local men don't notice toplessness because they see it as normal.
And you don't even want to know how Americans tend to react to women breast feeding their babies in public. (even done very discreetly)
And the women who were upset because you were climbing in your underwear, well that was probably just a reaction to you doing something that's typically not done in American culture.
Again, as stated by another poster, many Americans are very aggressive in letting you know that they disapprove of your actions. Usually this depends on what area of the US you are in or where the individual who confronts you is from.
I hope these encoutners didn't spoil your visit (or your opinion of Americans). Of all the encounters you described, the one that bothers me the most is the one with the guy who wanted you to leave your phone number on his truck. That would have made me concerned for what the guy's true motives were. The others I would have dismissed as just being rrude.
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timstich
Jun 13, 2004, 2:49 PM
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In reply to: ... Again, as stated by another poster, many Americans are very aggressive in letting you know that they disapprove of your actions. ...
What you need is an equally strong American response to this. Might I suggest what is known as the "Bronx Cheer?" Also commonly referred to as a "rasberry." We also have something else called "the finger."
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changling
Jun 13, 2004, 4:49 PM
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Paija, if the man you encountered was a ranger or an assistant ranger, than at least I'm glad he's doing his job. I encounter them all the time, and they don't always smile when interrogating, but I don't mind it at all because I see a lot of irresponsible people in the backcountry and I'm glad to see that the rangers are doing their job. I even wish they were even more harsh than they are already, because I see a lot of problem creators.
As for the rest, just out of curiousity, where are you from? I'm from Quebec, and the people here are so different than the people just 2hrs south. No one even gives you a glance here, much less a "hello", but when I'm in the Adirondacks, everyone is really friendly. I must say, I was pretty suprised and annoyed at first, but I got used to it by now, and learned rather quickly that it's actually quite nice to talk to like-minded people. Of course, I can always tell who is French-Canadian because they give dirty looks whenever I say "hello". Now that I find rude. Oh well, I'm not social at all, and I like being left alone, especially when I go hiking, so when I don't want to be bothered by people, I just go on more remote, less popular hikes. That always solves the problem.
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paija
Jun 13, 2004, 7:49 PM
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I'm from Alaska. I've lived on the East coast for a while though. Oh, and my grandfather was French-Canadian :wink:
Even if this guy was a ranger, it's not his job to harass us for not doing anything wrong. If there are people doing something bad, then sure, have at it, but harassing a couple of hikers is totally inappropriate IMO. It's akin to having a state trooper pull you over while you're doing the speed limit, and then haranguing you for 10 minutes about whether you were speeding during the last hour, or whether you intend to speed during the rest of your trip, etc. Besides, I don't need an ecological lecture about stepping on the wrong plants when there is a damn paved parking lot, dozens of cell phone antennaes, and a huge visitor center on the top of the hill. That kind of stuff is why I really didn't like the east! :lol:
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girlclimb
Jun 13, 2004, 7:50 PM
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ok just need to know what is a PFD?
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changling
Jun 13, 2004, 10:32 PM
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I guess people are more reserved in Alaska then. :wink: But then again, the population is so much smaller there that it's easy to avoid people.
In reply to: Even if this guy was a ranger, it's not his job to harass us for not doing anything wrong. If there are people doing something bad, then sure, have at it, but harassing a couple of hikers is totally inappropriate IMO
Well, I'm used to it. They ask about our plans, and about our bear bags, and give us a whole lecture everytime, but I'm glad they do it because they can't always figure out who knows what they are doing and who doesn't. Many people go out, not really knowing what's allowed or not, and if the rangers wait until they catch someone doing something wrong before saying anything, then it might be too late for a lot of things. They can't keep an eye on everybody all the time, and despite well posted information signs at trailheads, people still do the dumbest things. The clueless might not being doing anything wrong when the ranger walks by, but they might later on because they didn't know, so better make sure they are well informed when they see them.
In reply to: ok just need to know what is a PFD?
Personal Flotation Device.
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happiegrrrl
Jun 14, 2004, 1:43 AM
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Registered: Mar 25, 2004
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I'm not sure if any of the "interogators" were parks department rangers but if so, I think that rangers tend to converse with those within their jurisdiction for several reasons. They might enjoy the conversations they have with people out having fun; especially those travelling from a distance. In that case, they might feel they could perhaps be of assistance since they are familiar with the area. They are out on their rounds alone for a good portion of the day, and human interaction helps lessen the feelings of isolation.
It's also their job to know who is on the land and for what purpose. Especially in remote, technically challenging areas, people sometimes get lost or injured. The rangers may be sussing out the level of competence. A parks employee requesting a rafter keep on their PFD until safely on land may have seen people drown after losing footing at the river's edge......
Sure, some rangers - just like anyone else - can be (insert whatever negative word you care to). Get indignant if you want; what do I care? But, it might be helpful to remember who has the handcuffs and the "law" on their side.... As well, it would probably reeeally suck to treat a ranger like a peeping tom and then later find yourself having to thank him or her for rescuing you from some dilema....
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paija
Jun 14, 2004, 3:48 AM
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This is off topic but I don't think they have rangers on those little mountains there - I think they just had "trail ambassadors" or something like that. Maybe they had rangers but I never saw them. Anyway I thought that rangers were just for national parks?
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girlbrasil
Jun 22, 2004, 3:57 AM
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hey timstich I think I like your idea......its about all I could do.
I just dont like pushy people trying to control me .I see people doing things I wouldnt do all the time......I dont butt in.
I started climbing because its somthing I could do without a coach or team.its easy to get along with just one other person......more people more chiefs,egos ,etc.
most people I run into in the field are pretty positive.I just had a bit of bad luck with these two situations(asssholes).
a PFD is personel floation device.
mar
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joe
Jun 22, 2004, 2:19 PM
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In reply to: American men tend to stare at women's breasts more than men from many other countries do.
my new technique is unstoppable.
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rckclimbergurl
Jun 22, 2004, 4:51 PM
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In reply to: ok just need to know what is a PFD?
personal floatation device :wink:
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overlord
Jun 23, 2004, 7:45 AM
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climign in underwear???? how could you have done it!!!!! i mean, without calling me :wink:
well, seriously, just dont care about some stupid b*t*hes comment. she was probably just jealous becasue you look better than her and/or have the guts to show it.
as for the guy raising hell over the PFD (almost spelled that pdf :P ) and cigarette butt, he was just looking for a new gf and not being very succesfull.
as for people talking to oyu on tops of mountains, you get that here all the time. its just a nice chat, plus its a security bonus in case you get lost. someone will know where you went. thats also the reason why you want to say hello to anybody oyu meet when in the mountains, to make sure he/she remebers you and can inform the rescue service where were you last seen.
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