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nostalgia
Jun 21, 2004, 8:06 PM
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Hey all. My new Blue Water Accelerator just showed up, and I'm going to get started unrolling it (downloaded the great PDF from Mammut on this).
What I'm unclear on is how to store it after I unroll it. I've got a Superslacker rope bag. I've read that I can just "flake" the rope onto the tarp, and just roll the bag up like a tortilla. However, I haven't been able to find what "flaking" the rope means. I found a picture of a flaked rope, and it just looks like a big pile of spaghetti.
I would like to learn to do the butterfly coil, too (and found good instructions already on this site), but is that a good way to store the rope, or just a good way to tie it up for transport?
Oh, one more thing. Do you coil your rope differently for different types of climbing? ie, I'll probably be doing a lot of TRing, since I'm very new to the sport.
Thanks!
-Joe
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gds
Jun 21, 2004, 8:11 PM
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Yep flaking is simply starting at one end and making a pile of rope- like a pile of spaghetti. Just keep putting small section over small section. The idea is that with a rope properly flaked the top will pull smoothly the entire lenght of the rope.
It really doesn't matter how you store it- as long it is in a dry place protectied from bad things like battery acid.
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caughtinside
Jun 21, 2004, 8:36 PM
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Flaking a rope is easy. Make that pile of spaghetti!
You've got a ropebag, which is a good first step towards rope management.
You will notice that there are 2 loops on the inside of the rope bag. These are to tie the ends of the rope into. You see, if you flake the rope in the bag w/o tying the ends to these loops, you will invariably pull an end of the rope through a loop in the rope next time you want to use it, and put a knot in the middle. Doh!
Usually the loops in the bag are 2 different colors. Pick one, and always have it be the 'top' end. That way, you can unroll the bag and go. You don't want to be pulling rope from the bottom of your flaked pile, it's a pain.
BTW, the accelerator is a good rope. I found it stiff at first but it broke in pretty quick.
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nostalgia
Jun 21, 2004, 9:05 PM
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Great info, thanks! I just unrolled my rope and flaked it twice. It's happy spaghetti, and no kinks.
-Joe
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rocdaug
Jun 21, 2004, 9:06 PM
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FYI some people call it stacking.
so flaking the rope = stacking the rope.
I've also been told that it's better for the rope to be stored stacked(flaked). I imagine this is more appropriate if you use the rope regularly. can't see storing a stacked rope for years being better for it that how it comes from the manufacturer. I store my summer rope coiled in the winter and stacked in the summer. seems to work just fine.
rd
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firsttraxx
Jun 22, 2004, 11:27 PM
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Storage:
If I'm gonna be top roping, I'll coil the rope from the center -- that way, I can hook it through my anchor and toss it off the cliff after setting up without futzing around too much with the rope.
If I'm leading, I'll flake (or stack -- cool term. Gonna start using it) the whole thing into the bag so my second can find the trailing end (by finding the handy loops in the bag), and I can find the lead end. We can both tie in and leave the remainder of the rope in the bag. Keeps it out of crud, and neatly managed.
Enjoy that new rope, and don't step on it.
FT
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deleted
Deleted
Jun 23, 2004, 12:44 AM
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I've heard that there is a difference between "flaking" and "stacking" a rope, but still unclear on what it is. Anyone???
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dirtineye
Jun 23, 2004, 1:10 AM
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Don't listen to these noobs, Flaking a rope requires a truffle slicer and a large tarp. Now you know why rope bags have a tarp built in.
Once you have got your rope all flaked out, save the rope flakes in the tarp. I promise if you do this right, your rope will never kink again.
And the reason people often take up alpine climbing at high altitudes and low temperatures where things freze a lot at some point in their climbing life is so they can have frosted flakes.
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slobmonster
Jun 23, 2004, 1:19 AM
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I find that my rope flakes best when scrubbed with a Loufa and some exfoliant soap.
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eric
Jun 23, 2004, 1:25 AM
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In reply to: One more quickie: Have any good tips for neatly coiling 1" tubular webbing? No matter how neatly I coil and wrap it, it explodes into a mess when I'm not looking. I've got 2, 20' pieces.
Daisy chain it. It's like crocheting, also known as the electrician's loop or braid. Not to be confused with a daisy chain as in a sling. There's some pictures here (can't direct link, look under knots). Edit: here's a better illustration.
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mingleefu
Jun 23, 2004, 1:28 AM
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In reply to: One more quickie: Have any good tips for neatly coiling 1" tubular webbing?
grab a loop of the webbing right in the middle of it, and fold it in half upon itself. Pull the length of the webbing through your hand so that you now hold the tails in your hand (let the loop drop), and there are no twists in the webbing.
Tie a slipknot in the webbing, at the tails. then take a loop of the webbing that is undoubtedly trailing on the floor, and shove it through the loop in the slipknot, again, avoiding twists. (twisting makes this ugly). You'll now have a new loop sticking through the slipknot loop. Keep putting loops into the new loops, and you'll end up with all of the webbing tied into a compact little package.
To untie, grab the end that was last to be looped, and pull. If you did this right, the whole thing should come unraveled very nicely.
scroll down to the "daisy chain" section of this webpage I found on google...
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dutyje
Jun 23, 2004, 1:29 AM
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In reply to: One more quickie: Have any good tips for neatly coiling 1" tubular webbing? No matter how neatly I coil and wrap it, it explodes into a mess when I'm not looking. I've got 2, 20' pieces. -Joe
Daisy chain it:
Fold it (neatly) in half and start at the loose ends. Make a slip knot. Then pull a bight of the (long) remainder into the loop of the slip knot to make another slip knot. Then pull a bight of the (slightly less long) remainder into the loop of that slip knot to make another slip knot. Then pull a bight of the (still slightly less long) remainder......
You (hopefully) get the idea. When you get to the end, pull the last little bit all the way through the loop of the last slip knot and tug the whole chain tight. If you don't want it to accidentally undo itself, clip that final end piece to a carabiner and you're all set.
I bet one of the experienced-climber types could explain it to you a little more clearly, once they've exhausted their series of jokes regarding the true meaning of "flaking" a rope.
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dutyje
Jun 23, 2004, 1:39 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: One more quickie: Have any good tips for neatly coiling 1" tubular webbing? No matter how neatly I coil and wrap it, it explodes into a mess when I'm not looking. I've got 2, 20' pieces. -Joe Daisy chain it: Fold it (neatly) in half and start at the loose ends. Make a slip knot. Then pull a bight of the (long) remainder into the loop of the slip knot to make another slip knot. Then pull a bight of the (slightly less long) remainder into the loop of that slip knot to make another slip knot. Then pull a bight of the (still slightly less long) remainder...... You (hopefully) get the idea. When you get to the end, pull the last little bit all the way through the loop of the last slip knot and tug the whole chain tight. If you don't want it to accidentally undo itself, clip that final end piece to a carabiner and you're all set. I bet one of the experienced-climber types could explain it to you a little more clearly, once they've exhausted their series of jokes regarding the true meaning of "flaking" a rope.
Apparently, in the time it took me to write out a description of daisy- chaining, two others came along and wrote a better explanation and included links. Please insert my message before the two that preceded it, and you have the sequence I was going for :)
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nostalgia
Jun 23, 2004, 1:56 PM
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LOL hehehe thanks for the replies. I daisied the daylights out of my webbing. It's now the sexiest webbing daisy chain I have ever seen.
I got a free cordalette with my rope (that was a neat surprise; it didn't say anything about it on the website when I bought it) and daisied that up too, just for kicks. I tried to daisy chain my wife and cat, but they both bit me.
Speaking of cordalettes, I assume it's use will become apparent as I gain some climbing experience? I see them talked about all the time, and I've surmised so far that they're usually used for anchor setups, and some people love them and some hate them.
-Joe
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dutyje
Jun 26, 2004, 12:47 AM
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In reply to: LOL hehehe thanks for the replies. I daisied the daylights out of my webbing. It's now the sexiest webbing daisy chain I have ever seen. I got a free cordalette with my rope (that was a neat surprise; it didn't say anything about it on the website when I bought it) and daisied that up too, just for kicks. I tried to daisy chain my wife and cat, but they both bit me. Speaking of cordalettes, I assume it's use will become apparent as I gain some climbing experience? I see them talked about all the time, and I've surmised so far that they're usually used for anchor setups, and some people love them and some hate them. -Joe
Ahh, yes. The BlueWater free cordalette promotion. I'm a HUGE fan of the cordalette for many anchor setups. My partner doesn't like it as much. Find someone experienced to demonstrate the way to use your cordalette, and you can decide for yourself. There is also an excellent description of the cordalette (complete with pictures) in the book "Knots and Ropes for Climbers" by Duane Raleigh.
For starters, tie the whole cord in a huge loop with a double fisherman's knot. For racking, I wouldn't daisy chain it. There's a much better, easier, faster, and more compact way to rack it, as covered in this thread:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...iewtopic.php?t=59957
I use the method recommended by dredsovrn:
In reply to: Some people fold it over several times and them tie it in an overhand. I like to wrap it around my hand and them use the last foot or so to wrap around the coil. Feed the bight on the end through one fo the loops then clip it to a locker you will use at your belay. |
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tcantor333
Jun 28, 2004, 10:16 PM
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LMAO!!!!! Also an impetus for soloing. :D
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jt512
Jun 28, 2004, 11:55 PM
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In reply to: I've heard that there is a difference between "flaking" and "stacking" a rope, but still unclear on what it is. Anyone???
Stacking is flaking, but flaking isn't faking, at least not in boating:
In reply to: Faking: laying a line on deck in a series figure eights so the line will run free without tangling Flaking: laying out line on deck in parallel rows.
-Jay
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rockzen
Jul 1, 2004, 8:02 PM
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Well, sounds like you have flaking and daisychaining down pat.
As for storage, I think it is better to store it flaked. If you store it coiled, you'll get kinks. Please correct me if I'm wrong here... ?!?
For webbing, another good method besides the daisy chain - take both ends of the webbing (or cordlette) and lap it back and forth over your hand, then when you are almost at the end (i.e. 1-2 ft worth), wrap the remainder around and then through the hole. It can then be clipped, or you can wrap the loop overtop so it doesn't come undone. If that is confusing, I can probably dig up some pics.
Another tip if you are top roping - if you are going to 'pull' your rope when your are taking down a route (rather than pulling the rope up from the top), take the climber's end of the rope and pull the entire rope through the biners at the top. Running the rope through the biners at the top will help remove any kinks that were generated why belaying throughout the day. Some belay devices tend to kink the rope as it is fed into the rop bag or tarp whle belaying. Then take both ends and flake the rope into your bag (ending in the middle), so that it is ready for your next route.
Dave...
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rockzen
Jul 1, 2004, 8:03 PM
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Well, sounds like you have flaking and daisychaining down pat.
As for storage, I think it is better to store it flaked. If you store it coiled, you'll get kinks. Please correct me if I'm wrong here... ?!?
For webbing, another good method besides the daisy chain - take both ends of the webbing (or cordlette) and lap it back and forth over your hand, then when you are almost at the end (i.e. 1-2 ft worth), wrap the remainder around and then through the hole. It can then be clipped, or you can wrap the loop overtop so it doesn't come undone. If that is confusing, I can probably dig up some pics.
Another tip if you are top roping - if you are going to 'pull' your rope when your are taking down a route (rather than pulling the rope up from the top), take the climber's end of the rope and pull the entire rope through the biners at the top. Running the rope through the biners at the top will help remove any kinks that were generated why belaying throughout the day. Some belay devices tend to kink the rope as it is fed into the rop bag or tarp whle belaying. Then take both ends and flake the rope into your bag (ending in the middle), so that it is ready for your next route.
Dave...
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rockzen
Jul 1, 2004, 8:07 PM
Post #22 of 25
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Well, sounds like you have flaking and daisychaining down pat.
As for storage, I think it is better to store it flaked. If you store it coiled, you'll get kinks. Please correct me if I'm wrong here... ?!?
For webbing, another good method besides the daisy chain - take both ends of the webbing (or cordlette) and lap it back and forth over your hand, then when you are almost at the end (i.e. 1-2 ft worth), wrap the remainder around and then through the hole. It can then be clipped, or you can wrap the loop overtop so it doesn't come undone. If that is confusing, I can probably dig up some pics.
Another tip if you are top roping - if you are going to 'pull' your rope when your are taking down a route (rather than pulling the rope up from the top), take the climber's end of the rope and pull the entire rope through the biners at the top. Running the rope through the biners at the top will help remove any kinks that were generated why belaying throughout the day. Some belay devices tend to kink the rope as it is fed into the rop bag or tarp whle belaying. Then take both ends and flake the rope into your bag (ending in the middle), so that it is ready for your next route.
Dave...
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CelticGuy
Nov 20, 2014, 6:59 AM
Post #23 of 25
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My take. Stacking is different to flaking.
Stacking is random loops on top of each other (like a bowl of spaghetti).
Flaking is lots of 8's layed over each other. The term comes from flaking a sail. If you've seen a mainsail being flaked and look at the cross-section you'll understand.
Flaking: Thus http://www.animatedknots.com/fig8flake/
(This post was edited by CelticGuy on Nov 20, 2014, 7:04 AM)
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dr_feelgood
Nov 20, 2014, 11:23 PM
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CelticGuy wrote: My take. Stacking is different to flaking. Stacking is random loops on top of each other (like a bowl of spaghetti). Flaking is lots of 8's layed over each other. The term comes from flaking a sail. If you've seen a mainsail being flaked and look at the cross-section you'll understand. Flaking: Thus http://www.animatedknots.com/fig8flake/
A wonderful ten-year anniversary post!
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jt512
Nov 23, 2014, 5:54 AM
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CelticGuy wrote: My take. Stacking is different to flaking. Stacking is random loops on top of each other (like a bowl of spaghetti). Flaking is lots of 8's layed over each other. The term comes from flaking a sail. If you've seen a mainsail being flaked and look at the cross-section you'll understand. Flaking: Thus http://www.animatedknots.com/fig8flake/
Yes. That is exactly correct.
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