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melonhead
Apr 30, 2002, 7:04 PM
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OK,
Say I did a traverse "Free". The gear would be spread out a little more then if it were aided. What is a smooth way for the "second" to clean the traverse if he was "jumaring" up??
Thanks.
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milesdesbrie
Apr 30, 2002, 7:23 PM
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The best solution I can think of is for the cleaner to have appropriately-sized gear to plug in between your placements in order to space everything closely enough to clip-clean. He could have this gear either via cleaning it from the lower part of the pitch assuming that there is a non-traversing section below the traverse, or else he could just rack it up before starting to jug and clean. Or if you're trailing a haul line you could send the right gear down to him since you already know what sizes/types of pro are needed.
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radistrad
Apr 30, 2002, 7:31 PM
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If you freed it why did the second not also free it? That is the best bet and the fastest.
Miles has a good answer.
The second would either have to leave a piece and lower or "lead the pitch" in reverse while he is second.
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melonhead
Apr 30, 2002, 7:33 PM
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Very true. However, our free skills are far apart. He jumars great though!!! His name......Smak!!
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killclimbz
Apr 30, 2002, 7:41 PM
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There are some "rope tricks" you can do to make the swing on traverses next to nothing for the second. Rock and Ice or Climbing had an article on it a few years ago. I honestly can't explain how to do this.
Some of the aid guys on this site can probably explain it to you, or go look at some of the "how to" climbing books. I know I have seen it described in one of those.
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apollodorus
Apr 30, 2002, 7:49 PM
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It's very easy for the second to clean a traverse like that. It's just like cleaning a pendulum. He puts a bight of rope through the piece, and uses that to lower off. Then, he pulls the bight of rope through like pulling a rap rope.
The hard part is deciding what gear you want to leave behind. By passing the rope directly through the piece, you can at least save a carabiner.
The second can also down-jumar from above the traverse, and pendulum over to grab the gear he left when he cleaned it.
I DON'T KNOW WHY I FORGOT TO ADD THIS EARLIER: I cleaned a rather lengthy traverse move that had been back-cleaned by clipping the pin, and knocking it loose. I supermanned backwards for 40 feet into a corner, absorbing the shock with my legs. Hey, I was 2500 feet up El Capitan, and had not been scared at all up to then. The fall didn't scare me, either. I had to wait for carrying heavy loads down the dome-like slabs of El Cap at night with no moon and no headlamp. Starlight. SPOOKY!
[ This Message was edited by: apollodorus on 2002-06-25 19:15 ]
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wigglestick
Apr 30, 2002, 7:59 PM
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Melonhead- I have had this same question before. There are times when you would want the second to jug rather than climb regardless of their free climbing ability. First of all it can be faster. Most people can jug pretty fast if they have enough practice and if they don't have to clean too much gear they can cruise up the pitch. Also if they are jugging rather than climbing you (the leader) are free to either begin hauling or short-fix and continue up the next pitch. If they jug you can both be working and therefore can be a more efficient team.
To answer your question though. Miles has a pretty good answer. Although having the second re-aid the traverse that you just free climbed can be troublesome. They will need to place alot more gear than you did to lead the pitch. Imagine if there is a blank section that you stemmed across quite easily but it would be a nightmare to aid. Another option if for the second to carry a selection of hooks that they can use to do a 4:1 lower off and then with a flick of the rope release the hook and therefore not leave any gear. The second needs to know what they are doing because they could go for quite a ride should that hook blow while they are lowering off.
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melonhead
May 1, 2002, 7:10 PM
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Thanks everyone!!!
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addiroids
May 2, 2002, 4:35 AM
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HOOKS!! I like that one wigglestick!!
And I also like Apollodorous' idea. However, the cleaner wouldn't have to down-jumar if he was cleaning with a Gri-Gri (which we all know by now is the better way). All he would have to do is penji off the piece, pull the rope, clean like 30-40 more feet, then lower off, and do a nice little run back over to clean the piece, then jug back up and resume cleaning. Spend like 3 minutes to save $5-$60.
TRADitionally yours,
Cali Dirtbag (I do not free climb on walls)
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apollodorus
May 2, 2002, 5:21 AM
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OK, OK. When I said down-jumar, I meant generically moving down the rope. Same as the word 'jumar' is generic for an ascending device, "jumaring" is generic for ascending a rope.
I think it will be a long time before people start saying they "gried" a pitch, or "down-gried" to get the traverse pieces 8-)
And the Method of Hooks is fine, if you can place them.
Perhaps the most spectacular method is for the leader to stop at a stance to place one last piece of gear, and then do the traverse unprotected. When the second jugs to that point, he steps out of his slings onto the stance, removes the piece, and then Tarzans across.
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addiroids
May 2, 2002, 10:07 PM
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I like the Tarzan move. Very "bold" indeed. And I knew you meant "down-gried" it just wasn't in YOUR vocabulary yet. But now it is, let's all say it together:
"I'm going to gri this fixed rope"
Wait, that just doesn't sound right. I guess we can keep it as it was even if one of the tools are different.
TRADitionally yours,
Cali Dirtbag
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passthepitonspete
Jun 26, 2002, 2:08 AM
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Man, you should have seen Tom "Tarzan" Kasper pulling that flying pendulum move on the penultimate pitch of Excalibur!
Woo-hoo! Let 'er loose and fly!
Yeah, baby!
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