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ikellen
Jun 28, 2004, 3:36 PM
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This bugged me the last time I went tradding, so Im asking about it here. How do you rack up your nuts before a climb? Do you do one each on a draw or a biner? I noticed this guy who racked like 5 nuts on one biner and would grab one off when he was going to place one. I usually do one on each draw, but this can get messy easily and its hard to see the pieces sometimes.
Whats the best strategy?
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gds
Jun 28, 2004, 3:43 PM
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Most folks rack 5-8 nuts on a biner. Takes up less biners and if you do it logically by size you are likely to have the right one in your hand. I can't imagine having a dozen nuts each on their own sling.
I do the same with the smaller size cams, in my case Aliens; I have them all on one biner.
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powder_dreams
Jun 28, 2004, 3:45 PM
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Oh my god, a biner for each nut?!? Try racking all of your nuts on two (or three if 2 sets) biners from small to large. This provides a quick second guess, as well as a cleaner (and lighter) way of racking.
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trenchdigger
Jun 28, 2004, 3:52 PM
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As with most climbing related things:
It depends...
If I know I'll be using a specific piece (or specific pieces), I'll rack them so they're more accessible. That usually means organizing 3 or 4 to a 'biner, but occasionally if I've got enough space, I'll pre-attach them to the draws and clip the assembly to my harness as you mentioned. Otherwise (90% of the time), I leave my 7 smaller nuts on one 'biner and 5 larger nuts on another 'biner.
~Adam~
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shorty
Jun 28, 2004, 4:05 PM
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In reply to: How do you rack up your nuts before a climb?
Seriously, as stated above, group multiple stoppers on a biner. I have all my RPs and tiny nuts on one biner (maybe 8-10 pieces), smaller nuts on second (maybe 7-8 pieces), and big stoppers & 2 medium hexes on a third (maybe 5-6 pieces). If I need a second set of stoppers I add 2 more biners for these 12 or so pieces (or 1 biner if I only need a portion of the second stopper set).
I wouldn't recommend racking stoppers directly on a draw (if I understand the thread's opening statement). This dedicates the draw to that stopper, unless you are willing to do extra fiddling with gear at each clip. It's better to have the flexibility to match draws to the placement -- short or long runner, passive vs. active pro, directional needs, etc.
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ben87
Jun 28, 2004, 4:15 PM
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yup - the only time I would rack one nut on its own biner and sling (or draw) is if I know I'm going to place that piece at a crux. (I've done the route before orI have really good beta).
-Ben
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petsfed
Jun 28, 2004, 4:44 PM
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I use 4 crabs for 14 nuts. Thus if I drop any one crab, I don't lose half of my nuts. Coupled with some skill of matching the right sized nut to the crack means that I usually only have to grab one carabiner to get it right.
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nthusiastj
Jun 28, 2004, 5:03 PM
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I move mine over to the left before starting up a route. That way they don't get caught in my harness. Especially when I'm going cowboy!
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markc
Jun 28, 2004, 5:25 PM
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Wow. I can understand pre-slinging pieces you know you'll need, but a whole set of nuts? It seems any time saved in unracking and slinging would almost certainly be lost in fiddling (even if your sizing is good). As others have said, most folks rack multiple nuts per biner.
Then there's the question of how you place it. I typically place the nut while it's still on the racking biner. If your guess is a little off, you just have to flip to the next size. Once it's seated properly, unclip it from the set, rerack the biner and sling the nut. You can also use the racking biner if you feel the need to gently set your nuts. If you remove the nut before you're certain it's the right size, you're going to waste a lot of time unracking and reracking.
HTH,
mark
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ropeburn
Jun 28, 2004, 5:27 PM
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Hey J,
I think the expression you're looking for is commando, not cowboy.
Moving out west sure did take its hold on you...
:lol:
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flipnfall
Jun 28, 2004, 6:02 PM
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I've done a ton of trad. I have two sets from size 3 to 12 each on an oval bineer. D-bineers seem to hold the stoppers awkwardly so I avoid them. Never put all your stoppers on a single bineer in case you drop one set. Some people I know will take the stopper off the carabineer, but I grab the whole set on the bineer so I can quickly sort through which one is best. In 20 years of climbing I’ve only once dropped a set.
It does help to keep them in order instead of just throwing them on the bineer at random.
GT
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flipnfall
Jun 28, 2004, 6:08 PM
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I've done a ton of trad. I have two sets from size 3 to 12 each on an oval bineer. D-bineers seem to hold the stoppers awkwardly so I avoid them. Never put all your stoppers on a single bineer in case you drop one set. Some people I know will take the stopper off the carabineer, but I grab the whole set on the bineer so I can quickly sort through which one is best. In 20 years of climbing I’ve only once dropped a set.
It does help to keep them in order instead of just throwing them on the bineer at random.
GT
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ikellen
Jun 28, 2004, 8:52 PM
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So rack them more like keys on a key ring, and then just grab the whole ring and try each nut until you find one that fits them clip a draw/sling?
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markc
Jun 28, 2004, 8:58 PM
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In reply to: So rack them more like keys on a key ring, and then just grab the whole ring and try each nut until you find one that fits then clip a draw/sling?
Exactly. I even do that with smaller cams, but most prefer individual biners.
If you're like me, you occasionally try to put your house key in your car ignition and visa versa. Imagine trying to find each of your keys on its individual key fob and you have a good idea of what your prior racking system looked like to most of us.
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lichenmuncher
Jun 28, 2004, 8:58 PM
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:shock:
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klong
Jun 29, 2004, 5:41 AM
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I like to rack 5 nuts per biner... a few tricams (your choice of colors) on a biner and about 3 cams per biner. Then add slings, with two biners each... I usually just clip these right onto the harness. ( two foot slings, tied/hitched into one footers)... That way when I'm climbing and need a nut, I get a good idea about if Im looking for a larger one or a small one and pull the appropriate biner.. Then i place the nut... and unclip it from the rest.
The downside to this approach is that If you drop the biner.. well there goes the whole mess of nuts)...
It seems excessive to me to cary all of those extra biners one per nut... Plus slings/draws... Most of the climbs that I seem to do, I only use about 50 -70% of the gear...
I guess like most things it just depends...
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mingleefu
Jun 29, 2004, 6:20 AM
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I prefer to look up at the first placement, 15 or 20 feet off the deck and eyeball it for a minute or two until I'm certain of the size of that first nut. I take the nut off the racking biner, and clamp it between my teeth like a pirate's dagger, making quick of that first bouldery start while baring my fangs and growling like a hungry wolf as that nearing placement induces a bead of drool to roll over the corner of my mouth. I swallow the aluminum tasting spittle that has gathered around my jaws and grab the stopper in a fluid arc, landing it firmly in the perfect placement. As I clip it, I'm already eyeing the next placement, and growing hungry for another piece of gear...
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karlbaba
Jun 29, 2004, 6:33 AM
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You are much less likely to drop a rack of nuts if you just choose the right size one from the biner while it's still on your gear sling. That takes experience though. In the meantime, rack your nuts on several biners with a variety of sizes on each biner so if you drop a biner with nuts on it, you're not screwed.
You'll thank yourself for only racking nuts on Keylock biners!! It sucks when the wires get hungup in biner notches.
I also agree that, when you know certain nut placements are key on a climb, rack a nut with a sling in advance. Second pitch of Reeds Direct in YOsemite comes to mind.
Peace
karl
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cgailey
Jun 29, 2004, 9:03 AM
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I try not to rack my nuts before a climb...it hurts! :shock: :lol:
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wallwombat
Jun 29, 2004, 9:17 AM
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In reply to: I prefer to look up at the first placement, 15 or 20 feet off the deck and eyeball it for a minute or two until I'm certain of the size of that first nut.
Amazingly enough, I try an make my first placement a little bit lower than ''15 or 20 feet off the deck''. Your belayer is obviously very brave or a bit thick! I would be yelling at you at about the 10 foot mark. Then again, I may be a big wuss. Mind you, I am 36 and I've been climbing for a fair while and I am still alive.
You can die falling off a 3 foot step ladder. It's some thing you should always remember. If you are dead with a #4 stopper clenched between your teeth , you are still dead - a dead pirate impersonator, perhaps?
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bigeastcoastsissy
Jun 29, 2004, 10:01 AM
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I rack #'s 2-6, and 2 of the smaller HB Offsets on a biner, #'s 7-10. and the 2 middle sized offsets on another biner, and #'s 11, 12, 13, and a large offset on another biner. (Offsets are AWESOME!!)
The only thing that I rack on a single biner is cams. And even TCU's I double or triple up. I may occasionally single-biner an alien.
Usually I'll keep my rack on a sling, and draws on my harness. This works perfectly for me, although I realize it's personal preference.
STOTT
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petsfed
Jun 29, 2004, 7:18 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: I prefer to look up at the first placement, 15 or 20 feet off the deck and eyeball it for a minute or two until I'm certain of the size of that first nut. Amazingly enough, I try an make my first placement a little bit lower than ''15 or 20 feet off the deck''. Your belayer is obviously very brave or a bit thick! I would be yelling at you at about the 10 foot mark. Then again, I may be a big wuss. Mind you, I am 36 and I've been climbing for a fair while and I am still alive. You can die falling off a 3 foot step ladder. It's some thing you should always remember. If you are dead with a #4 stopper clenched between your teeth , you are still dead - a dead pirate impersonator, perhaps?
The long way up on the first piece is from the idea that if you place your first piece 10 feet up, you can only go another 6 or so before you're likely to deck if you fall. So you end up spending twice as much time placing pro when the only one that really counts is the second one. If you put off placing your first piece until 20 feet off the deck (assuming this is the first pitch so factor 2 fall is impossible), you'll be just as safe and not as pumped. Either way, you're dealing with groundfall potential at 15-20 feet off the deck. But in the second case, you might not be pumped from fiddling with a stopper that just wouldn't slot right.
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crazygirl
Jun 29, 2004, 7:23 PM
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4 sets, 4 biners: big, medium, small and micros.
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wallwombat
Jun 30, 2004, 5:28 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: I prefer to look up at the first placement, 15 or 20 feet off the deck and eyeball it for a minute or two until I'm certain of the size of that first nut. Amazingly enough, I try an make my first placement a little bit lower than ''15 or 20 feet off the deck''. Your belayer is obviously very brave or a bit thick! I would be yelling at you at about the 10 foot mark. Then again, I may be a big wuss. Mind you, I am 36 and I've been climbing for a fair while and I am still alive. You can die falling off a 3 foot step ladder. It's some thing you should always remember. If you are dead with a #4 stopper clenched between your teeth , you are still dead - a dead pirate impersonator, perhaps? The long way up on the first piece is from the idea that if you place your first piece 10 feet up, you can only go another 6 or so before you're likely to deck if you fall. So you end up spending twice as much time placing pro when the only one that really counts is the second one. If you put off placing your first piece until 20 feet off the deck (assuming this is the first pitch so factor 2 fall is impossible), you'll be just as safe and not as pumped. Either way, you're dealing with groundfall potential at 15-20 feet off the deck. But in the second case, you might not be pumped from fiddling with a stopper that just wouldn't slot right.
Sorry, but did you read what you wrote, mate?
You said that if you place your first piece 20ft off the deck you'll be just as safe and less pumped. :shock:
What if you fall after 18ft? Are you nice and safe and not pumped or did you just crater into the ground? I thought so. You cratered.
Do you skip the first bolt on sport climbs to avoid getting pumbed from 'fiddling' with a quick draw. Probably not.
I would seriously like to know how many climbers don't bother placing pro until 20ft off the deck. Not that many, I imagine.
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tradklime
Jun 30, 2004, 1:22 PM
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In reply to: I would seriously like to know how many climbers don't bother placing pro until 20ft off the deck. Not that many, I imagine.
It, of course entirely depends on the particular climb. How hard is the first 20 ft. of climbing? Is there any pro available? Sometimes 3 feet, sometimes 30 feet...
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