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prairie_climber
May 1, 2002, 5:11 PM
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is the difficulty the same of a indoor 5.10 (or whatever) or a outdoor 5.10.
or is the outdoor route more difficult
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camhead
May 1, 2002, 5:38 PM
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Ratings are VERY subjective all around, not just with gyms and outdoors. If you climb much you will see this.
I mean, a sport 5.10, an Indian Creek 5.10, and a city of Rocks 5.10 are all totally different. It is wise to check out local ratings to get a feel of how they relate.
Anyway, I'm sorry about the tangent I got off on. Gyms routes are equally subjective and can be either easier or more difficult than their outdoor counterparts.
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melonhead
May 1, 2002, 5:45 PM
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Don't ever compare real rock to the gym!!
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dupree
May 1, 2002, 5:48 PM
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DUCK! I sense a slew of anti-plastic tirades coming...
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hangerlessbolt
May 1, 2002, 5:52 PM
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I agree with Camhead...
Heck, even the ratings in same area can be quite different.
Also consider the type of climbing...face, crack, slab...put a 5.11 Utah crack climber on a 5.10 Yosemite slab...Things can get very interesting.
All ratings are subjective...
(Sometimes they just give me an idea of how likely it is that I'll come home with all my gear.)
-Hanger
[ This Message was edited by: hangerlessbolt on 2002-05-01 10:52 ]
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old_school_guy
May 1, 2002, 5:56 PM
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At the risk of being flamed.....
Indoor climbing differs from outdoor climbing in many ways, not the least of which is that it doesn't snow on you indoors (which it did on me on a granite pitch last Saturday in Maine). That being said, indoor climbing is both fun and valuable. My 13-year-old has spent every weekend training on the gym wall this winter. This weekend, he was doing his first "real rock" climbing (outside of bouldering). He knocked off some very respectable 5.7-5.8 climbs despite cold, wet and the occasional snowflake. No way could he have done so well without his systematic gym training. He loved the real rock...and is still planning to hit the gym wall this week as well.
Personally, I am clueless as to how anyone could compare outdoor and indoor climbing using the Yosemite scale. There are just too many variables outdoors. Maybe somebody should develop an indoor rating scale so we wouldn't be tempted to compare indoor and outdoor so much. Has somebody?
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mikedano
May 1, 2002, 7:06 PM
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I think you would be correct in assuming outside grades are similar to inside grades. I can lead a .10 outside and inside, but I cannot lead a .11 either outside or inside (yet). However, there's plenty of qualifiers:
--type of climbing. Face climbing (most gym climbing) is very different from crack climbing--different moves, different style, different everything.
--area. I'm betting whatever gym you go to is rated about the same as the surrounding climbing areas. But some areas are definitely harder than other areas, so you need to do a few climbs in a certain area before you get the feel for it.
So my advice is if you're going climbing outside in a new area or climbing style, do some that are well within your ability just to get the hang of it before pushing the grades.
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miagi
May 1, 2002, 10:28 PM
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Well, in comparison from gym to "real" rock, I hate the gyms. I can never get a good grip on the gym's holds, and I preform horribly.
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wyoclimber
May 1, 2002, 10:51 PM
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Agreeing with most here... Gyms and Real Rock are totally different. I like both. I will be at the gym tonight, cause it snowed all day here... however, i would NEVER climb indoors if there was an opportunity to climb outside. Being run out 15 feet above your last piece of pro, and 100 feet from the ground is a feeling you could never get on an indoor wall! But indoor can be fun as well, controled situations for practice and such.
anyway...
Its all good
climb on!
-B
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boogirl
May 2, 2002, 3:20 AM
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Real rock vs. the gym? That's like comparing apples to oranges. There's no substitute for a campfire and night under the stars after a day on real rock with that special friend. But, when the snow is butt deep to a ten foot indian, there's no substitute for a roof overhead in a heated gym. It all depends upon what you're hungry for.
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phreakdigital
May 2, 2002, 4:30 AM
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Gyms were developed because rock climbers couldn't climb outside because of the weather or couldn't drive all the way to the rock...so...it would only stand to reason that outside is better than inside. The intimatacy with the real rock and choosing what to hold and how to hold it cant be reproduced in the gym. These aspects of outside climbing would make it more difficult then inside climbing.
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kaptk
May 2, 2002, 5:11 AM
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I want to echo something that old_school_guy said. He talked about how the YDS really doesn't work for rating indoor climbs. I started a thread about this a few months ago and nobody seemed to agree with me. One of the biggest reasons that the YDS doesn't work for indoor climbs is that tracking, using the same holds for both hands and feet, isn't how you climb on real rock. Exposure also does not come into effect on indoor climbs. The gym I climbed at for my climbing class at school does not use the YDS rating system. Actually, the climbs aren't rated at all. It is great not having to worry about the numbers and just paying attention to the climbing.
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coldclimb
May 2, 2002, 5:52 AM
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I only go to the gym to work out during the winter months. Ratings really have no set standard, so there really is no way to tell for sure exactly what a route is. It is based on the feelings of experienced climbers who climb it and say "That seems like a *Fill in the blank*"
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hang_man
May 2, 2002, 10:25 AM
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i always do it indoor coz ... there ain't much rock here!!
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climbracer
May 2, 2002, 11:32 AM
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There are two indoor rock gyms near me. The one gym is fairly close to the local crag ratings, the other gym has overrated climbs.
Kathy
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stewbabby
May 2, 2002, 1:40 PM
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top ten reasons that climbing the real thing is harder than the gym:
1 no groovy colored tape to follow
2 the holds arent pink and green and protrude from the wall saying "grab me"
3 i have never seen a 1000' climbing wall
4 it never rains, snows, is hot,or cold or is windy inside
5 you dont have to place pro in a gym
6 you dont have spiffy padded floors outside
7 there arent any r/x gym climbs
8 real rock can hurt you and has a mind of its own (if you climb outside you know what i mean)
9 snakes and bees
10 SPIDERS(man i hate spiders)
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dupree
May 2, 2002, 1:57 PM
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Most folks seem to agree that plastic and rock are worlds apart. I think the important question, though, is whether rating indoor climbs is useful. It seems to me that rating indoor routes serves its purpose -- letting the climber gauge the relative difficulty of a route -- and that any correlation to real rock is irrelevant. The point is to keep people from having to try every route in the gym to find something appropriate for their skill level; Indoor ratings do that, so who cares whether they match their outdoor counterparts?
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kelownaclimber
May 2, 2002, 2:42 PM
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Maybe we could all put tape outdoors to make it more like indoor
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camhead
May 2, 2002, 4:50 PM
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Hangerless said:
"put a 5.11 Utah crack climber on a 5.10 Yosemite slab...Things can get very interesting."
What are you implying? Actually, yeah, I would probably s**t myself. Nothing scares me more than running it out.
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kennoyce
May 2, 2002, 5:53 PM
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real rock and outside are totally different, but i think that they can use the same rating system and just no compair indoor and outdoor. indoor needs to be rated so that you can choose hard routes to climb to keep in shape and build endurance and technique, which is what indoor climbing is for in the first place, but you can't transfer plastic ratings to outside there are just too many factors that are different.
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metoliusmunchkin
May 2, 2002, 9:00 PM
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Check the link below for forums exactly as such:
Click Here
The hotlink fairy was here
[ This Message was edited by: compclimber on 2002-05-04 08:37 ]
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indoor gyms vs. the real thing
