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beerandblood
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Aug 20, 2001, 12:43 AM
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kriso9tails
Aug 20, 2001, 1:02 AM
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I did some sport leads on slab in Chamonix and was fortunate enough not to take any large falls. The hardest slab I've led is 11+ and that was kind of creepy. Climbing aroud aretes is also similar. I was on a climb in Kentucky, which moved around an arete. I climbed around the corner, but before I clipped anything on that side of the arete, I fell and smacked my ankle into the wall. I didn't finish the climb because of that even though it wasn't really hard.
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fiend
Aug 20, 2001, 3:34 AM
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I'm against one word replies but:
*shudder*
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paulc
Aug 20, 2001, 2:39 PM
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Bummer about the fall, dude. I have used the run backwards technique before and it seems to work well for me, as long as you can run fast enough and don't trip, but on a hard slab that is unlikely. I think most other things would increase the possibility of tumbling.
Yeah climbing above a ledge or slab kinda freaks me too, especially at my limit. What can you do though? If you want to get up the route then you don't really have a choice.
Paul
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krillen
Aug 20, 2001, 4:35 PM
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Depends, Sudden fall? Relax, would be my suggestion. If you know you are going then push off hard and brace for the swing into the wall?....or just NOT fall [grin], easier said than done I know.
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compclimber
Aug 20, 2001, 7:46 PM
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Check out "Vapor Trail" in clear creek this is a really fun slab with large runouts, you are lookinbg at a 25/30 foot whip on a slab if you cut loose at the crux. The worst injury that I have heard of happening on this route is a broken ankle!!
AS for falling technique is to run or if its a low enough angle you can just lean in a bit and slide on you shoes, I know some one who burned through a pair of boreal's after sliding about a full pitch on the "Third Flatiron" OUCH !!!!
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wandt
Aug 29, 2001, 7:31 PM
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I love slabs. Except for their complete lack of dyno capability I'd say they were my favourite facet of climbing.
On one .11 slab route here in Squamish (top of the Malemute, if I recall correctly) there were two bolts. One halfway up and one at the very top. 20 metre route. I cruised up past the first bolt no problem, squeeked through the next session, and then just as I was reaching for the draw to clip the top bolt I leaned a bit too far forward, the line of balance changed and my feet started sliding. As I slid, face to the rock, I used the heels of my hands to keep my body and face off the rock by pretty much punching against the wall with them. Finally when I hit the ground my feet hit and I fell on my bum. My partner had been running back, taking in as much line as humanly possible the whole time, but I still bottomed out. Except for tender heels and a burning sensation in the balls of my feet I was fine. Though I decided to finish the route later that summer.
The shoes lasted another week and then developed a few very large holes.
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ughmo
May 1, 2002, 2:53 AM
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Sorry but I've also been told the best way to "fall" on a runout slab is exactly what your partner did, turn and run! Saves your hands and grill from abraision. Although I heard it's best to run at a slight angle rather than straight down, (if that makes you feel any better!). I was told this by a group of folks at Stone Mt. in Georgia. I'm glad to say I didn't have to try this technique, it would have scared the crap outta me!
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bulldog
May 1, 2002, 3:27 AM
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I don't know how to fall on a slab.
But, you can always have your belayer use the "Stone Mtn Belay" technique to help lessen the length of the fall.
This technique has been debated here before, and I believe the safety of it was decreed "questionable". And, it only works if your belayer is at the base of the climb and has room to run.
Bulldog
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tim
May 1, 2002, 3:43 AM
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The running belay... oh god... I got to see this one in action at Stone Mountain a while back, my girlfriend and I were heading up Entrance Crack to do the Arch, and some dudes a few climbs off to the right, were doing something HARD, looked 10ish at least. Long story short, they used the running belay to good effect. Probably ate up 20' of slack.
I can yard in 6-10' when I see a fall coming (did this for a friend in the Needles on his first hard lead) but slabs freak me out anyways. Hardest runout slab I've ever got up was a 5.9 at the Needles, although I marched across a 5.9 wearing a full aid rack at Cathedral. Not sure why it didn't bother me, I think the difference was that I knew I was supposed to be scared in the former situation. I would like to do Mercury's Lead and Bombay Groove at Stone Mountain but I'm not sure how I will handle the fear!
nb. Doug (my partner where I reeled in some slack for his fall) did a judo roll, out of instinct mostly. Slapped his ankle a bit but was okay and only flew about 12'. I usually don't fall, after one nasty aid incident where a 35-footer shattered one of my fingers.
[ This Message was edited by: jabbeaux on 2002-04-30 20:45 ]
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phil_nev
May 1, 2002, 3:44 AM
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SLAB CLIMBING IS EVIL... EVIL I TELL YOU.....
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joemor
May 1, 2002, 8:44 AM
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try falling on cheese grater granit....... i sure as hell dont want to be grated cheese!!!!
joe
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rickoldskool
May 1, 2002, 6:31 PM
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Alot of advice has been given here. Many suggest running down the rock. I must most respectfully disagree, that's INSANITY. I know many of you are experienced climbers, but think about it. 95% of my time is spent on granite, and half that on slabs. I've posed this question before, to many of my partners and other climbers. A controlled slide, feet first hands up and in front of you, is the safest way. Here's why. The most important body part you have is your friggin head! If you takeoff running your gonna trip, tangle with the rope, and increase the potential for a head first fall dramatically! Or you end up in NO position to protect yourself when the rope goes tight.
Sliding correctly is key.
1) PLANyour fall, where you gonna go?
2) Make damn sure your leg doesn't get behind the rope, you'll flip and crack that noggin of yours.
3)If there's something below you, a dike, edge, knob, chicken head, or ledge, push off the rock GENTLY! Just enough to clear the obstacle. If you hit it you'll wreck your ankle or worse flip backwards. Don't jump, you'll slam back into the wall when the rope goes tight.
4) Maintain control, FEET FIRST, HANDS UP as long as possible. The farther out you are the more difficult it becomes.
I have fallen on slab more times than I can recount. Besides a few abrasions, slab falls aren't that bad. I'd rather have the abrasions than spill my brains on the rock.
PLEASE DON'T USE THE "RUNNING METHOD, you may have been lucky so far, but it eventually your gonna get your ass bit, HARD!
Good climbing......
P.S. If WANDT had turned to "run", he might be a dead man! He did exactly what i'm recommending, and landed feet first.
[ This Message was edited by: rickoldskool on 2002-05-01 11:34 ]
[ This Message was edited by: rickoldskool on 2002-05-01 11:39 ]
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crackaddict
May 2, 2002, 12:27 AM
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Like oldschool said THE RUNNING MAN! is not the way to do it..
I prefer the 4 POINT SKID!! myself.
You might be grated but at least you won't tumble. One of the most important things is making sure you have the rope in the right place and making sure it is'nt going to hook your ankle.
My last advice for slab climbing HELMETS! HELMETS! HELEMETS!
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iclimbtoo
May 2, 2002, 12:38 AM
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That's it dude. 4 point skid is the way to go. And never without my Half Dome!:D
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paulc
May 2, 2002, 12:59 AM
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Good advice Rick, but I think most if not all of the people that said run, really meant run backwards, not turn and run. I agree though the key is control and keeping your head safe.
Paul
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rickoldskool
May 2, 2002, 3:09 AM
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Paulc, thanx for mentioning that about backstepping. If we're talking about runout slab, it doesn't matter much. I should say that "backstepping" might work in the case of a very short fall, 5-10ft, maybe. I would still prefer to slide, It often happens that the slide stops before we ever weight the rope. Anybody wanna do "Great White Book Arete". Live long, climb hard...
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tim
May 2, 2002, 3:25 AM
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Yeah, what he said.
WEAR A f---ING HELMET (says a guy who usually brings his brain bucket in the truck, and then wears a cowboy hat on the climb, unless it's aid, ice, or hard slab...)
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apollodorus
May 2, 2002, 4:53 AM
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I took a fall on the Glacier Point Apron once. I sorta oozed off, and kept going. I kept my toes and palms to the wall, and just rode it out. I spread my legs and arms a bit, to keep from falling over sideways. The angle was so gentle, I never really picked up speed. My hands were barely scratched at all. My shoe rubber was roughed up pretty good, though. I guess I managed to keep most of my weight on my feet, which was probably key. If my feet had blown out, I would have been skating on my chest and face. There were no edges to hit, which was also fortunate.
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full-time-climb
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May 2, 2002, 4:59 AM
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I love slab! Especially when Elvis shows up and tries to shake me off. One thing I know about slab is "There are times when you just don't fall". One thing I have found helpful is fingerless gloves. Take a four point skid...No biggy. Someone mentioned the top of the Apron at Squamish...They have a climbed called "A question of balance" 35m long with only a single bolt before the station. Goes about 5.9-10a. Life changing event.
L8r
John
[ This Message was edited by: full-time-climb on 2002-05-01 22:01 ]
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bulldog
May 2, 2002, 5:20 AM
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"I would like to do Mercury's Lead and Bombay Groove at Stone Mountain but I'm not sure how I will handle the fear!"
I do know what you mean.
I watched a dude take a nasty biter about 2 feet from the last set of bolts on Bombay Groove (I was right under him down on the wimpy Arch). The fall, to say the least, was less then graceful. I caught up with him at the end of the day and to my suprise, he actually had a little bit of skin left.
Bulldog
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stewbabby
May 7, 2002, 1:06 PM
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as for the running belay that was mentioned earlier. being from the south i have seen it done numerous times. some have been a lifesaver, but it can also cause the zipper effect. think about it. havent you always been told that the belayer is to be as close to the first piece as he can. i saw this at sunset park in tn and it was not pretty. the leader was bout 50 feet up and starting a runout slab. he took a fall and the belayer started running. well its simple physics. the force of teh belayer running out and the leaders impact force combined to start the zipper. it snatched one cam 2 nuts and 3 hexes right out of the rock. the leader ended up falling about 15 feet further than he would have and the only thing that saved him from the ground was a tiny friend. so i wouldnt advise the "stone mtn running belay"
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smellydude
May 22, 2002, 6:51 AM
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I am all for the running technique and am an avid practitioner of it. On the long granite slabs of the Apron in Squamish, I have perfected it. On White Lightning(.10c) I took repetitive 25 foot falls on a manky 1/4 inch button head sliding a bit at first and then running backwards. Actually after awhile I kind of developed a perverse pleasure in slab falling;) hhmmmmmmm
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graniteboy
May 28, 2002, 8:55 PM
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your partner's method is tried and true. people have been doing it that way for decades, and it saves your shoe rubber and the skin on your ass.
the other option of course, is to make some dot rubber shorts, which you can turn around and sit down on and stay put, even on 5.11c slab.
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cedk
May 28, 2002, 9:33 PM
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Yeah! Kind of like Letterman's velcro suit. What about some stealth resoles on a pair of knee pads?
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