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dotc
Jul 5, 2004, 3:11 PM
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I have been introducing people to rock climbing for many years now and enjoy it. One thing I have noticed, however, that frustrates me is that most beginers (and occasionally strong gym rats, outside for the first time) don't want to learn to hand jam. Foot jams, fingerlocks etc.. are a problem too. When I try to explain the technique they look at me like I have two heads! Sometime, with much encouragement, they will stick a hand into the crack, but then give up without actually commiting to a move. The gym-rat will usually try to boulder the outside of the crack, making a 5.8 crack climb, a 5.12 problem. The total beginner will usually "take" after spending an hour waiting for a jug to magically appear.
The usual complaints are that jaming hurts or that it just feels too insecure.
Anyone have any teaching techniques or suggestion for getting people to trust jams?
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gds
Jul 5, 2004, 3:21 PM
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I can tell you what seemed to work for me. Do really easy cracks. I went off to J tree and climbed at the 5.3-5.7 level for several days.
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jammin
Jul 5, 2004, 3:26 PM
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I think it's more of a state of mind than anything else. I haven't had much luck either. Once they realize that jamming actually burns them out less than going up that 5.12 face next to it, they start doing it. This is just experience which can come from climbing outdoors.
I'm not surprised that beginners don't get it. For gym rats, force them to go up the crack. Maybe stick a rack on them (fully loaded of course) and then have them try that 5.12 variation. They should quickly realize that the crack is a much better option. Have them place pro at the same time (while on TR) so they realize that have to look in the crack to place something. This will also force them to hang on the jams.
Anyway, good luck
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tammy
Jul 5, 2004, 3:31 PM
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i'm a relative noob myself, but am finding that i really like crack! i'm finding the jams fun... and secure. when i was taught about different jams, we happened to be in a gym (we got rained out from being outside). the gym had some different size cracks integrated into the wall. one of our intructors demonstrated the different jams, one at a time, and climbed using them. then it was our turn.
doing it inside was nice solely becuz we had a great spot to fall if we needed it, and the cracks were right in front of us; no need to climb up to something or even get off the ground. made it nice to test out the 'strength' of a jam.
don't know if that helps at all...
if they think it hurts, tell 'em to suck it up!! and if they aren't taped up, try that. it might just help them mentally! and we all know how much of this game is in your head...
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angry
Jul 7, 2004, 12:26 AM
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Word on the easy cracks comment.
I'd say the n00b should climb taped the first couple times, to get the feel of a hard jam. The next few times the n00b should go without tape to get the feel of the rock and smooth jamming.
n00b or not, jams will hurt. It just gets to be a good pain after enough climbing. Or you get used to it.
The best way is to climb cracks.
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on_sight_man
Jul 7, 2004, 1:04 AM
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Take them to Indian Creek. They will jam, or they won't climb much.
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valeberga
Jul 7, 2004, 1:15 AM
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Yeah put them on a crack that just simply does not go as a face climb. Hmm... 5.6 hand crack, or "5.13" slab? Worked on me.
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veganboyjosh
Jul 7, 2004, 1:37 AM
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when i first started going outside, as opposed to the gym, i noticed that i was much more inclined to use holds that hurt. the holds in the gym were designed with some (some holds more than others) ergonomics in mind.
i think it helped me to climb inside cos i was much more willing to put up with a painful hold or stance cos outside i just didn't wanna fall. (i was following trad.)
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toejam
Jul 7, 2004, 7:45 PM
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Somebody posted here a while back, describing a hand jam position as folding your thumb across your palm and trying to touch the base of your pinky. Was a good tip for me.
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petsfed
Jul 7, 2004, 9:15 PM
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Put them in a position where the only option is to jam. Also, pound into their heads that hanging off handjams is very rarely the solution. You can get by foot jamming and crimping. Its a damn sight easier than a pure face solution, and may be easier than a pure crack solution too. Or put them on a crack at the end of the day. Make sure its the easiest route of the day as well. Look for the beta and you'll find what you're looking for right?
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cracklover
Jul 7, 2004, 9:49 PM
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A couple wraps of tape around the back of the hand has helped some people I've taught make the transition. But the truth is that some people just seem to take to jamming like a fish to water, while others will always see it as a necessary evil to be used as a last resort.
Crack Lover that I am, you can guess which camp I fall into. :)
GO
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jonnyb
Jul 7, 2004, 10:25 PM
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In reply to: Somebody posted here a while back, describing a hand jam position as folding your thumb across your palm and trying to touch the base of your pinky. Was a good tip for me.
I usually describe this to beginners as making the number "4" with you hand. Most beginners try to use their fingers too much in hand jams. But i think the key for being comfortable in cracks is focusing on footwork.
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kindredhawk
Jul 7, 2004, 11:19 PM
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Little personal experience when i first started climbin... i was messing around one day on some local rock and there was an over hang and i couldn't see the top looked like 15 ft tops from the ledge i was on(which was another 20 ft or so from actual ground) to the top so i start up it on a little free solo journey working the out side of the crack and i get past the over hang to see another 10 feet. by now i am 15 ft above the ledge and then i realize if i fell id deck on the ledge and probably bounce of that for another 20 ft peter pan action. I decided to bail and down climb but i was hand jammin' like a mo fo. i was jammin that crack like the first time i was ever with a girl. let me tell ya a little scare tacktick might do the trick. it did for me. now there are many lessons to learn from this but like i said i was new to the whole rock climbin experience.
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dotc
Jul 8, 2004, 4:31 PM
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I agree that taking new climbers to an area with perfect cracks where jamming is the only option is the best way to get people learn. I got my girlfriend trusting her jams on our first trip to Squamish. Around here, however, most of the cracks are discontinous and irregular. Anything suitable for a beginner can usually be face climbed as well.
I remeber learning myself many years ago by adjusting the the size of the "crack" between my refrigerator and the wall to practice handjams, fist jams etc.. If you can jam the slick side of a fridge, granite seems easy!
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climbs4fun
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Jul 8, 2004, 5:06 PM
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I was that climber you described the first few times I was being taught how to crack climb. Unfortunately, I was at Paradise Forks where there is no easy. It was incredibly frustrating and made for a less than stellar time. The only thing I can say is that it's one of those things that just clicks at some point. It's like somebody flipped a switch and I just got it. Now I love crack climbing. My main complaint when I first started was that it hurt. Now I just don't care that it hurts. I try to explain that to the guy I'm dating and he looks at me like I've just lost my mind. Be patient with the people you are trying to teach. They'll get it eventually. They may even learn to love crack!
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slacklinejoe
Jul 11, 2004, 4:04 PM
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I've been teaching several people to crack climb recently. I found an interesting way of teaching it that they could understand.
Most climbers understand at least the principal of placing gear on trad climbs. The idea, find the part of your body that fits the crack, place it in a way for maximum contact and security and then make a move. Show them the basic secure ways of hand placement and their off. For some reason when they see it as a "gear" placing procedure they don't seem so afraid of cranking.
I agree with tape gloves first time out, no need to leave scar tissue until they've gotten technique to help.
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calfcramp
Jul 22, 2004, 7:43 PM
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I would say it has a lot to do with the `NO PAIN NO GAIN` philosophy. I've recently learned a little bit about hand jamming (and foot now that I think about it...) from an experiened climber. I read the 'how to rock climb' books too.
It all made sense to me before I tried it. Tried it, then fell off. It then came to me that if it doesn``t hurt, it's probably not tight enough. I'm sure that with experience it becomes easier, but at first you just tough it out.
That's what I think anyway.
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holdplease2
Jul 22, 2004, 8:14 PM
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Re: No Pain No Gain -
This is an interesting part of crack climbing...the pain.
When a new climber first starts to climb 5.6, especially when outdoors and perhaps sketched, they hold on to the hand holds soooo tight that they flame out? Later, when they relax a bit and trust the holds, they could do laps an the 5.6 and never feel a thing...even if their endurance had not improved.
Overgripping on cracks happens at a similar rate...only rather than feeling the flaming pump, the overgrip is an over-cam of the hand which really hurts. The hand (or fist, whatever) would probably stay in the crack just as well with 25% of the force...and 25% of the pain!
Another important aspect of pain and crack climbing is footwork. Just like with the jugfest 5.6 referenced above, as footwork improves, dependance on the arms decreases...meaning less pump-out.
Easy, starter crack climbs often do not require that the feet be jammed in the crack. The result is that new crack climbers (who are experienced on other terrain) learn hand technique first...as they try to move up the grades, they are unable to place the feet in the cracks and cam gently to move up...instead they flail with the feet, hanging on the arms in pain. When they finally do decide to put the feet in the cracks...you guessed it, they "overgrip" with them, or over cam them, resulting in pain.
I would put a new crack climber in a safe setting and tell them to jam their hand and stand up in the crack with one foot inside. I would have them do this over and over in the same spot until they learned just how little force is required to get the jams to hold...and I would berate them endlessly for depending on face holds to the side of the crack for anything other than gear-placing stability...to keep the handjam/footjam learning curves overlapping.
And I need to get a life. Yes I do.
And I need to stop wearing my aid gloves when I crack climb. Yup, sure do.
:)
-Kate.
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crazygirl
Jul 22, 2004, 8:30 PM
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ok, ok , good topic.
a question from an east-coaster (i.e.crack noob)
when jamming your feet, do you keep the foot straight or bent?
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g
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Jul 22, 2004, 9:29 PM
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I've heard the words like explain or describe, but I've heard few say show. Show people how to jam! There have to be some spots on the ground where you can do this, the visual will be far more helpful than putting you're hand into some lump and saying imagine the crack. I don't think I've ever told anyone how to tie a figure-8, but I have showed people.
Another key is not overloading them with too much information (here's a fist jam, a hand jam, a finger lock, a foot jam, on this crack you might actually cup your hand, here you'll heel-toe the wide crack, thumbs up here, thumbs down here, since the crack is leaning this way you'll want this foot on the face, in the corner... you get the point). Few people are just going to be natural crack climbers. It should be taught as a gradual progression of skills.
Another language problem for me, Crazygirl, what do you mean by a foot being straigh or bent? At the ankle sideways like, or bent like an arch? I don't get it.
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crazygirl
Jul 22, 2004, 9:39 PM
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In reply to: Another language problem for me, Crazygirl, what do you mean by a foot being straigh or bent? At the ankle sideways like, or bent like an arch? I don't get it.
bent at the ankle sideways, sorry for not clarifying
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on_sight_man
Jul 22, 2004, 10:49 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Another language problem for me, Crazygirl, what do you mean by a foot being straigh or bent? At the ankle sideways like, or bent like an arch? I don't get it. bent at the ankle sideways, sorry for not clarifying
Classic foot jam is toe in. Foot perpendicular (sticking straight out) from the crack, sole of foot is against the side of the crack. So with the right foot, the sole is against the left side of the crack, the top is against the right side of the crack, toe is streaight in. Then, to jam the foot, you crank your right knee to the left. If your foot was in correctly, your right knee would have to be pointing out right, so really just pulling your knee straight up cranks your foot.
As you start to get a feel for how much (or little) you need to crank your foot to get it to hold, there are several things you can experiment with.
1) you can raise your heel so you foot is pointing more toe-down. This puts more of the meat of your foot in the crack and allows less cranking (cause there's more friction) and can be more comfortable to stand on. But it's harder to feel that it will hold since your jamming less and frictioning more.
2) you can go the other way. Lets say you're in a left facing dihedral with a thin crack in the back. The left foot can go in the cracks as described above, but what about the right foot? You can't jam it like above because your knee is in the way. What you can do is put you right foot with the sole on the RIGHT wall. If you point your toe down while you do this, it's almost like your stemming against the right wall but with you right pinky toes in the crack.
If you really get into crack climbing I suggest you get a pair of slippers that are not nearly as tight as sport shoes. I was SHOCKED when I changed shoes in terms of the pain difference. My sport shoes just always hurt when I crack climbed and I thought it was just because I was cranking my feet. NOT TRUE, it's because I was cranking my feet inside something tight. Also, loose slippers allow you to put a bit of the toe rubber into a crack even without any toe. It's like aid climbing :)
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crazygirl
Jul 23, 2004, 1:56 PM
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thanks for the info, on-sight-man
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