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j_ung
Jul 8, 2004, 2:18 PM
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In this thread...
http://www.rockclimbing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=65212&forum=23
with this picture...
http://www.mindspring.com/~craig/scary.gif
there is a link to this webpage...
http://www.mindspring.com/~craig/quiz.html
where this quiz can be found...
In reply to: What would you do? It is 20 minutes after sunset and it is sleeting. You are rapelling off a climb and are 40 feet off the deck when you notice that you didn't throw the ropes down evenly. You have reached the end of one strand. You can barely make out the fact that your other strand is laying on the ground in a nice big pile. You realize that if you take the time to ascend the ropes and re-toss them your partner and you will both die of hypothermia. What do you do? The Details: · The pitch is 50 meters · You are rapping on 2 - 50 meter strands tied together · You have 1/2 of a normal trad lead rack · You are at an over-hanging section and can't get to the rock to set an anchor · The ropes won't budge under weight (ie. you can't try to rotate the ropes)
I'll add a couple more details:
1. In your hypothermic haze, you neglected to tie any type of back-up (autobloc or otherwise).
2. You do not have enough rope left to wrap your leg, nor do you have enough rope left to tie a mule hitch, e.g., you are truly at the end of the rope.
Well, what do you think? The answer is actually very simple.
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sspssp
Jul 8, 2004, 2:48 PM
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Well, for starters it would be pretty weird to have to ropes tied together, but not equalized at the anchor (did you pass the knot on the way down?).
Ok, we assume the ropes aren't the same length. I yell up for my partner to keep the ropes from shifting (you already said the ropes won't slip on their own) and rap a single strand. Partner, hopefully, ties the rope off at the anchor and raps.
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dingus
Jul 8, 2004, 3:12 PM
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Easy... you let go of the longer end of the rope. Don't ya dare let go of the shorty though!
My mother named me Craig by the way...
DMT
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korporal
Jul 8, 2004, 3:48 PM
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In reply to: Easy... you let go of the longer end of the rope. Don't ya dare let go of the shorty though!
That is exactly what I was thinking, and you beat to posting it.
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tradalltheway
Jul 8, 2004, 5:06 PM
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assuming that you have two half runners in your 1/2 of a trad rack you could tie a kleimheist in the short rope, tie an upside down kleimheist in the long rope, clip them together and make the connection taut. rapell past the short rope, stop, tie a safety knot in the loose end to prevent the kleimheist from slipping off. continue the rapell
there are many variations with only a sinle prusick or kleimheist, but i would not trust my partner (nearing hypothermia) to keep the ropes from shifting.
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tradmanclimbs
Jul 8, 2004, 6:22 PM
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judgeing from that guys chicken head anchor i wouldn't listen to anything he has to say.
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flashsixteen
Jul 8, 2004, 6:29 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Easy... you let go of the longer end of the rope. Don't ya dare let go of the shorty though! That is exactly what I was thinking, and you beat to posting it.
You said that before I could, man, now I came in third.
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tradalltheway
Jul 8, 2004, 6:43 PM
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it's been stated that the ropes won't budge; therefore, if you let go of the long rope nothing should happen.
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bumblie
Jul 8, 2004, 6:57 PM
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Tell your partner to secure both ropes, i.e. prussick, to guarantee both ropes wont budge.
Rap down the longer rope.
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i_climb
Jul 8, 2004, 7:07 PM
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I think Bumblie's got it. I don't know if I would have thought of that in the situation, but it looks to me like the best way out. Once you have rappelled to the bottom on the single line, your partner can even up the ropes and rappel on both.
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flashsixteen
Jul 8, 2004, 7:10 PM
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In reply to: it's been stated that the ropes won't budge; therefore, if you let go of the long rope nothing should happen.
In that case I would have my partner prussik/autoblock them together. If I have all the gear, I would do it myself and have my partner lock off just before the prussik, tie himself into the shortend, undo the prussik and I would belay him down (remember, that is if I have all the gear).
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vegastradguy
Jul 8, 2004, 7:14 PM
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this doesnt make any sense, because if both ropes are 50m and they are tied together at the ends, this should never happen. ever. you'd hit a knot or giant pile of rope, but you wouldnt have one rope 40' longer than the other if you tied the two ropes together at the end and they are the same length.
if the ropes are different lengths, well, theres ways around it...if the knot is on the short side, then lower off by holding onto the short rope and letting the long rope get pulled back up. if the knot is on the long side, then you'd have to have your partner secure that side with a prusik or two, then rap down the long line.
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sandbag
Jul 8, 2004, 7:21 PM
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If that one loop of webbing is the anchor, im just going to tie off and cry for SAR.
Jugging on that will either bounce and pop, split the webbing or break that crappy sandstone head off.
again, id never limit my life to such a crappy predilection of mistakes and poor judgement to end up in that situation, but im a weeny and tend to mitagate the risks till im comfortable with them.
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feedmerocks
Jul 8, 2004, 7:25 PM
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In reply to: this doesnt make any sense, because if both ropes are 50m and they are tied together at the ends, this should never happen. ever.
You'd think so, wouldn't you?
A partner and I were rapping down Glypnod, in the Gunks, a couple weeks ago. We had my 60Mx10.5mm rope tied to his 60Mx10.0 or 10.2MM rope. We had planned to stop at the tree belay/rap station that ends the first pitch, as we were pretty sure that we couldn't hit the ground. But, someone on the ground called up that the ropes were on the ground. Ok, so I kept going.
I descended another 15 meters before his friend on the ground called up that, oops, both ends weren't on the ground after all! We know the ends were even at the rap anchor because I specifically made sure of it before I started rappeling. The only explanation is that the entire climb IS taller than 60 meters, BUT his rope was able to touch down, and mine wasn't, because a thinner rope is stretchier. Or perhaps one of the ropes is longer or shorter than 60 meters due to a factory defect.
Never trust trust, folks!
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reefer
Jul 8, 2004, 8:04 PM
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easy! You wake up!
Did I win??
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vegastradguy
Jul 8, 2004, 8:41 PM
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rope stretch of 5-10' is one thing (i've dealt with this), but you're talking about 40' difference, and actually more if there's 'a huge pile on the ground', so the difference is more like say 60-70'. that's a load of crap. that's half of a 50m line. theres no way that could happen in the scenario put forth, unless somehow you didnt notice one of your lines was chopped in half, or you somehow passed the knot halfway down your rappel on one side of the line.....most people leave the knot at anchor!
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