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tyify
Jul 12, 2004, 7:06 AM
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This is explanation of what happened at the monolith at hatchers...Critique what I did all you want. Alex is my partner I'm me.
Me and Alex had gone to hatchers to do some climbing out on the
monolith. I led a 5.8 Trad with no problems and then seconded her up
with no problems. We then rapped off. We decided as a cool down
little fun climb we would climb an apparently easy 5.4. I led it
first and succeded...the climb was incredibly run out (35 feet between
bolts) but was so easy that I was not severly worried. I hiked off the back of the face and met her down at the bottom. As it was too
long for her to top rope we decided that Alex would lead the
pitch. She had very few problems with the first 3 bolts (about 90
feet). She was wearing my helmet at this point and was leading
confidently as it was easy. The 3rd bolt (a ghetto rusty 1/4 inch
one) was about 35-40 foot away from the next bolt. She began the
accent and had very few problems until she reached the crux. She put
her leg up to go for the 4th clip at which point her foot gave way.
She began to fall. At this point several things happened at the same
time. I screamed f*** knowing the trouble she was in and started to
run backwords (about 3-5 feet)...She at this point was about 4-8 feet
down the slope. If you look at the diagram included(coming soon as soon as mods approve it) you can see where
I ran....when I saw that she was definently falling I jumped...I have
never jumped this hard or this high. I went approx 4-5 feet up and
about 20 feet out...unfortuently for me the ground dropped 7 foot
while I was in the air...meaning I had a 11 foot straight onto my back
facing me. Also unfortuente but not is the fact that when I had
jumped I had arched my back in an attempt to get further away from the
wall to stop Alexs fall. I on my fall down realized this could not be
good and braced for impact. As I came down the side of my head met
with a rock..I was not wearing a helmet as alex was in more danger we
believed. I saw stars but held on. I rolled for about 5 feet and was
jerked suddenly to a stop. At this point I untangled myself and
looked up. I had kept Alex from falling the 70 feet she should of
fallen...I had caught her on that rusty ghetto 1/4 inch pin that we
were so worried about. I caught her ON the bolt..aka she only fell
straight to the bolt (35 feet) instead of going past it. She was
coherent and I was to as well. I got up and brought her off. She
arrived at the ground in bad shape. She was bleeding from the wrists,
ALL over her hands and her knee. She had also ripped her pants. We
think that when she grasped for holds on her fall she caught a ledge
for a short while and ripped off most of the skin in her fingertips... At which
point she probably banged her knee against the wall and split that
open. After she got down I checked her all over for other injuries
that wern't obvious...Kept her from hyperventalating but this
situation was going for the worse as we both were going into shock. I
managed to keep calm and things gradually improved as the addrenal
gland fluids wore off. We after about 10-20 minutes we got our selves
together and figured out what we were going to have to do to get the
gear remaining off the wall as I had left the draws when I had
finished climbing. We reovered them by me abeseiling off to the
midway point leaving a bail biner and rapping the rest off. After we
had accomplished this (took about 25 minutes) we headed back to the
car...Where we had to clean Alexs wounds up
This was a very scary situation and could of turned out much much worse. Luckily we both pulled out okay and hope you guys all read and learn from this. If anybody had a better idea on what I should of done please tell me!
PS> I'll post pictures as they become available to me...
Edited for clarification...
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mrtristan
Jul 12, 2004, 7:21 AM
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Wait... i'm confused... So you climb the 5.4 but it's too long for you to get lowered off of, so... I assume you stay at the top of the climb. But then you say that Alex led it after you had already led it... How does that work??
-Tristan
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tyify
Jul 12, 2004, 7:27 AM
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Sorry didn't make it clear enough...I hiked off and left my draws up there for her to clip into in and pulled the rope down....sorry :oops: ...My head hurts to much to write coherently
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mrtristan
Jul 12, 2004, 7:38 AM
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Ah, I see. Maybe it would have been better for you to stay at the top of the climb, belay Alex up (cleaning the gear in the process), and then for both of you to walk off.
One more thing I'd like cleared up... When you belayed her, you were at the bottom of the cliff, yeah? So the ground slopes downhill from the cliff and you jumped backwards and because of the jump and downward slope of the hill, fell 11 feet?
-Tristan
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tyify
Jul 12, 2004, 7:45 AM
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Unfortnuently Alex forgot her belay device and thinking it was an easy climb I told her fromt he top that she could lead it and that I didn't feel like coming down and grabbing the belay device and then hiking back up...Bad decision in hindsight but hindsight is always 20/20...
And yes the reason I fell 11 feet head hitting ground first is because the ground dropped off considerably under me as I fell.... This is also the reason I was able to jump 17-20 feet out backwords...but the adrenaline was INCREDIBLE. I could have lifted a car off her if the situation warranted...This will become much more clear once mods approve photos and I can post those...
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rych
Jul 12, 2004, 7:48 AM
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Maybe it was meant to be mixed; bolts and gear. Don't know, just an idea. Lucky/well done with getting through it relatively well and fortunate you weren't knocked out!
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tyify
Jul 12, 2004, 9:37 AM
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The route was a slab so there was very little to no places to put pro. There were 2 cracks but being stupid we figured oh well we'll just run it out...Here are some pictures...hopefully Diagram especially will clear things up...For refernce I'm the on in the Diagram and Alex is on the end at the top...so it is my suicidal jump backwards through space...
http://www.rockclimbing.com/photos.php?Action=Show&PhotoID=35922
Here is the picture of my friends hands after her 35 foot fall.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/photos.php?Action=Show&PhotoID=35923
That picture truly does not serve how deep those cuts are justice...they are NARLY cuts and will be there for a while...
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jefffski
Jul 12, 2004, 10:09 AM
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yuck. btw shock can only occur in one of three situations--loss of blood, head trauma or infection. it is not reversible in the field. if shock does occur, lie the victim down with feet slightly elevated, keep them warm and nothing by mouth (eg no water). prevent further blood loss (pressure on the wound, (not a tourniquet) if possible. comfort them by talking to them. tell them what happened (even if they are not conscious) and help them stay calm. apparently this is a big factor in survival rates if the victim is able to help themselves. seek immediate medical attention.
what you felt was, as you said, the rush of adrenaline.
glad to hear that you are okay.
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one900johnnyk
Jul 12, 2004, 11:38 AM
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that's pretty quick thinking, i'm glad everything worked out so that you're both here to talk about it!
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kathy
Jul 12, 2004, 12:28 PM
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In reply to: yuck. btw shock can only occur in one of three situations--loss of blood, head trauma or infection. it is not reversible in the field. .
can't one go into shock as a consequence of other truama? I was with a friend who had a very nasty fall and broke his clavicle (smashed it in 3 places, and the break was 'displaced' -don't know the technical term, but the broken bits moved out of the normal alignment), and i thought he was under shock - green colour, hyperventilating, very cold sweat.. isn't that shock?
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cfnubbler
Jul 12, 2004, 12:30 PM
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In reply to: I didn't feel like coming down and grabbing the belay device and then hiking back up.
Why didn't you use a Munter hitch?? And if you're not familiar with the Munter, than a hip belay, which would provide MORE than adequate security on a 5.4 slab? Not to flame you when you're down, but laziness is a bad reason to make important judgment calls on the rock, and in this case you clearly had options...
-Nubbler
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jbell2355
Jul 12, 2004, 12:51 PM
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Glad to hear that nobody was seriously injured in your accident.
As mrtristan suggested, you probably should have belayed from the top. If you're going to climb outdoors you really need to learn alternative belay techniques. It would have been very easy to belay with a biner and munter hitch. Have someone show you how to do this and make it part of your climbing repertoire. There will come a time when you will need to know the munter hitch...it can also be used for rappelling.
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faust
Jul 12, 2004, 3:18 PM
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jesus christ, that's a bad fall. we must have been in the parking lot when you guys had your accident. first of all, it sounds like you thought fast and did a great job turning a huge ground fall into a relatively minor accident. good for you.
but dude, 10 minutes earlier i had TOLD you to bring small gear to supplement the bolts! local motion is definately a mixed climb.
and yes, as others have said, a munter hitch or just a hip belay would have been perfect in this situation.
anyway, chalk it up as a lesson learned. be very happy you survived your first major climbing accident with no hospital visit. and from now on, sew that shit up!!!
-matt
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j_ung
Jul 12, 2004, 4:09 PM
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I very glad that no one was seriously hurt, but I think you're overestimating the distances involved. Sorry, no flames intended.
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jakedatc
Jul 12, 2004, 4:18 PM
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Kathy you are correct.. jeff is not quite correct
"Shock: Occurs in injuries with severe pain, bleeding, spinal injuries, fractures or abdominal or thoracic injuries, but may also accur in minor injuries" - Sports injury management, Marcia K. Anderson ph.D,LATC
might as well educate a bit...
symptoms of shock:
restlessness, anxiety or disorientation
cold clammy skin
profuse sweating
extreme thirst
eyes dull with dilated pupils
skin inicially pale but later may appear cyanotic(bluish)
nausea and or vomiting
shallow irregular breathing or maybe labored, rapid/gasping
dizziness
pulse rapid and weak
all of jeff's treatments are ok except
if head injury is suspected then elevate head and shoulders (feet only slightly elevated if at all)
if spine/ neck injury is suspected then keep lying flat
monitor vitals every 5 mins
i wont pile on but you coulda had her attach the ATC to the rope. pull it up.. then lower the rope again..
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jefffski
Jul 12, 2004, 4:31 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: yuck. btw shock can only occur in one of three situations--loss of blood, head trauma or infection. it is not reversible in the field. . can't one go into shock as a consequence of other truama? I was with a friend who had a very nasty fall and broke his clavicle (smashed it in 3 places, and the break was 'displaced' -don't know the technical term, but the broken bits moved out of the normal alignment), and i thought he was under shock - green colour, hyperventilating, very cold sweat.. isn't that shock?
treat it as shock. much better to prevent shock than to try to deal with it when it gets worse. if the patient improves they were not in shock. but better safe than sorry. shock kills.
here is a very complete and technical explanation from Merck.
http://www.merck.com/mrkshared/mmanual/section16/chapter204/204a.jsp
here is a first aid primer
http://health.allrefer.com/health/shock-causes.html
and another-use the forward button to readmore at this site
http://www.wildernessmanuals.com/manual_4/chpt_2/19.html
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tedc
Jul 12, 2004, 4:37 PM
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From the sound of it this was a "leader does not fall" situation. My guess is that the gf was not climbing with that in mind.
On an X rated slab I always "test" holds before committing and always make sure that if the hold I am committing to fails that whatever other holds I am on will keep me on the rock.
X rated climbs even 2 number grades below your onsite ability are VERY serious.
Making a climb X rated by skipping protection is a very bad idea. (Obviously).
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tyify
Jul 12, 2004, 4:46 PM
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We believed that the climb was WELL within her ability (she can climb 5.10) and she wanted to lead it so I was going to let her lead it. Faust it was a mixed gear climb...if you went up the left side crack not the on the right...she went right and didn't have any small enough pro to fit into that crack. Right before she fell I was telling her to get over to the left to get to the crack on the left to place a nut in there. She was approx. 2 feet below the bolt when she fell making her way over to the crack...
We paced out the distances when I rapped off to recover the gear...so I'm pretty sure they are correct....
On a side note I'm sure someone is going be wondering WHY the hell a bail biner was left on a 5.4.... :roll:
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jakedatc
Jul 12, 2004, 4:49 PM
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edit: ahh so she was basically off route.. sucky situation for a first time leader.. :( hope her head game isnt all messed up
jeff.. what kathy was describing was shock.. no need to treat it *like* shock it's right there
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flashsixteen
Jul 12, 2004, 4:56 PM
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Glad you made it out okay, I bet you have learned the Munter hitch by now. I do like your diagram. I hope recovery is okay.
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tyify
Jul 12, 2004, 4:58 PM
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Yah off route on that much of a run out was no good. Right before she fell I was yelling for her to go to the left to go back on route and get into the crack she could place something in...So she could do the 3-4 foot climb up to the bolt with some protection.
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faust
Jul 12, 2004, 5:13 PM
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In reply to: On a side note I'm sure someone is going be wondering WHY the hell a bail biner was left on a 5.4.... :roll:
Don't feel bad, bail biners are pretty common on this particular climb. It's a scary slab and the easy rating fools people. Most poeple would call this a sandbag.
On another note, it doesn't sound like she was off route. The crack on the left is a different climb, while this climb smears over a bulge about 15 feet right. The small crack between the 3rd and 4th bolts is the only gear placement on the route, and it takes pretty small gear.
-Matt
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tyify
Jul 12, 2004, 5:25 PM
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If thats the case that she was on...she didn't have anything small enough to place in the crack...I really need to get some smaller nuts...
On a side note yes I could of belayed from the top with a Munter Hitch. I know how to body belay but felt that it would be easier if she led it so I walked down. She wanted to lead it as it was anyways so we didn't think about seconding with a munter or body belaying... Maybe a bad decision but thats how things go...S#%@ happens
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ambler
Jul 12, 2004, 5:38 PM
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In reply to: Unfortnuently Alex forgot her belay device and thinking it was an easy climb I told her fromt he top that she could lead it and that I didn't feel like coming down and grabbing the belay device and then hiking back up...Bad decision in hindsight but hindsight is always 20/20...
I see others have made this point too -- it's an important one. Alternative belay and rappel methods are skills you shouldn't start up without. They can be easy and safe, not last resorts to be avoided by more risky maneuvers.
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tyify
Jul 12, 2004, 6:01 PM
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Yah sorry for not making that more clear. I could of easily seconded her to the top with a body belay however as I had just done it lead with NO problems she felt she could lead it with no problems. It was 6 grades under her hardest climb to date...She just improperly balanced/ placed her left foot...
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