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crazycarl54
Jul 13, 2004, 5:02 PM
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Ok, this topic has obviously been discussed at GREAT length, and in bazillions of postings, however, there is still a HUGE lack of clarity and free-flowing information.
I have surfed these forums quite a bit, and have found relatively clear descriptions and pictures of 3:1, and even 6:1 non-ratchet/come-along tightening systems.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=61531 and etc.
Unfortunately, this seems to be where the information stops, or at least slows to a trickle.
I would like to crank down 100ft+ threaded lines by myself, and I know its possible, but those possessing the know-how dont seem to want to share pictures and detailed descriptions.
I know that most of you who REALLY know what your doing have "ties" in some form or another to business enterprises capitalizing off the lack of this information. Unfortuntely, your silence is driving many slackers to just say screw the hassell and buy a ratchet system or come-along.
All it would take is a simple series of pictures and explanations by one of the pro's laying ALL THE INFORMATION ON THE TABLE to catalyze the growth of this sport.
MY hope is that this posting will become a conglomerate of descriptions and PICTURES (lot of pictures) detailing advanced long-line setup.
Cmon slack-pro's, I know you have worked hard to attain your rigging knowledge, but if you are committed to spreading this sport, you need to share the tricks of the trade. (The best attempt I have seen of this sharing is http://slackieho.net/, but it is far from complete or well-laid-out)
Thanks,
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slacklinejoe
Jul 13, 2004, 5:16 PM
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Registered: Nov 5, 2003
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I think you should lay out what your asking in a more specific manner.
You ask like you just want to know any given method to make it work but then you mention resorting to ratchets/comealongs as a last resort (which with proper technique will do what your asking). Heck, you can set 100' lines by pulling on a line with a truck or by setting it hand tight super high up - but I don't think that's what your wanting.
If your wanting a run down on pulley based systems, that information is commonly available - just try looking in roped rescue books - tons of information on how to produce a pulley series capable of lifting whatever you want, also look into the aid climbing section on "hauling".
The key is the ability to make a good solid pulley system, then amplify it further through staging another system on the tail of it. It gets complex looking and difficult to describe very quickly and it actually involves physics equations - not to mention it gets expensive since your trying to eliminate as much friction as possible which intails getting good gear.
As far as setting 100+ lines solo, yes it can be done, fairly easily with the right equipment. I do it all the time, but I do so using my gear that I make that I also sell. Doing so cheaply without bulk is the trick - and those pre-made commercial rigs do that for you through small compact 3:1's pulley style systems that can be staged, 6:1s pulley style that might be all you need that can still be amplified by another stage or even up to 13:1 leveraged system (eliminates most friction and uses a ratchet).
I certainly wouldn't recommend bashing on the commercial guys for the sheer nature that none of us are trying to "get rich quick" and we all promote the sport as much as we can. There is no "dirty little secret" we all have on making gear that works - just an understanding of a bit of physics and applying that to what we can make.
It may seem like some of the rigs are pricey but making your own ultra nice pulley system costs big bucks - theoretically all you'd ever need is several of CMI double uplift pulleys, the corresponding matching pulley and static rope and you could pull any length you'd ever need - of course check the price of those and mentally calculate the bulk of rigging multiple pulleys in a series. Tensioning systems are all about compromise, ease of use, expense and bulk, each company seems to have picked a slightly different emphasis so slackers can pick what suits there tastes. So slackers now have way more options now days than they ever did, including ideas to help make their own.
Edit: For those who don't want to read that rambling post: quick answer - go get a book on roped rescue - read it, understand it, read it again and try it.
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crazycarl54
Jul 13, 2004, 6:09 PM
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thx for the response -- I definetly dont want to come off as bitching about commercial slackline product providers, I am sorry if it sounded that way (although I suppose it did).
In order to provide more clarity as to the info I am seeking, I guess I am looking for methods using self-locking webbing systems (if possible, perhaps it isn't) For example, more info on further magnifications of the 9/16 Ellington System.
Or detailed layouts of pulley/static rope/ascender systems. (low-quality pulley systems are CHEAP to set up using petzl ultralights) http://www.rei.com/online/store/ProductDisplay?storeId=8000&catalogId=40000008000&productId=310850&parent_category_rn=4500697&vcat=REI_SEARCH
I already have two petzl ascenders, but dont understand how to properly encorporate them into my tightening system. (I know that sounds ignorant)
Overall, I am just hoping this posting-string can be an opportunity for all the long-liners to share what works for them, and HOW. (again, pictures are very important) Also, info on "soft-pointing" (I think it is called) -- removing your gear from the system after set-up so there is just a biner or two left. I know that slacklineexpress has a nifty tool for this, but how do others achieve this effect?
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slacklinejoe
Jul 13, 2004, 6:46 PM
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Carl,
Sorry, I know your looking for pictures but I'm at work (day job) and can't snap some for you. I'll add what I can later.
(disclaimer - there are lots of alternative ways of doing this stuff, I'm just listing what I know if you have a "better way" please post up - I know aid climbers would know many more tips - especially the lazy ones.)
Those ultra light petzl "pulleys" you listed - well uh, they work on smaller lines but I turned 2 into fragments pulling a 45 foot line very tight. Petzl sells those as emergency use only - that have a straight axis that when loaded on an oval biner flexes and under lots of stress cracks. I can't imagine them being very helpful on a big line. What your looking for is a pulley system that can handle 1,000 lbs pull or so just for tensioning and I wouldn't trust it to be on the system while slacking a big line unless it was rated at 2,000+. If this setup was part of the rig while slacking I wouldn't feel safe at all with "low quality" pulleys.
The best self locking mechanisim piece of hardware for webbing that I've found is those slide locks we sell, heck if you want some I'll start offering just the slide locks so you can make your own stuff - I mean they are dirt cheap, I doubt you'd find anything more effective for a similar price. If you don't want to use any extra hardware, if your wrapping webbing back and forth just make sure the last wrap is under the previous wrap and it becomes self locking to a point (you still have to tie off).
If your locking off rope, you can make a self locking carabiner rig. Essentially you loop the rope around the two biners and then lead the end up between them and pull back to you - as tension is placed on it it goes around the biners and pinches on the strand your pulling on. I'll see if I can dig up a link later. It works "ok" but asenders are by far superior since they hold better and it doesn't introduce much friction to the system.
As for using ascenders: the key is to have a lock off point in front of the tensioning system. So if your using rope ascenders you'll have a main line that stops say 10-15 feet shy of your anchor then switches to static rope. You'll then place the acender on the static line and feed the static line through your pulley system. When you let go, the ascender holds the line for you. To make this work, you have to pull on the tensioning line, then slide your ascender tight.
This is one way, but remember, an ascender isn't designed to hold that type of load with you slacking on it so you'll have tie off the other end and use a release hitch to give you slack to release the acsender from the line. The other ascender will be handy to stage another pully system behind that one.
Judging from my discussion with Ammon on here soft pointing was a term that was applied for using webbing "doughnuts" that were sacrificial webbing - there was no releasable point in the system so when you took the line down you cut the doughnut. This can be used as a replacement for a release hitch. I've too have seen the term soft pointing used as a reference to removing gear - but from what Ammon suggest it isn't.
Freedom of the hills has a nifty diagram of piggy backing pulling systems - go to your local library or barnes & noble.
Also check out: http://science.howstuffworks.com/pulley.htm
Edit: Here is what works for me I know your not much into ratchets but it is effective. Total weight including the 100 foot webbing, slide lock adjusting tree slings, tensioning system and slide lock pack: around 9 lbs, not really light weight but the tensioning system packs is as small as a sneaker and cost wise it ain't all that bad. 5 minutes setup solo and no grunting. I do custom lines for longer as well, the same hardware can do much bigger lines.
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areyoumydude
Jul 17, 2004, 8:30 PM
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Registered: Dec 28, 2003
Posts: 1971
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For longer lines I would recomend the Slack-Jack SL. If you want a pulley system I would recomend two double pulleys like the petzl gemini, two single pulleys, a gri gri or pro traxion, a rigging plate, and an ascender.
Cost of the Slack-Jack $85. Cost of the pulley system about $315.
The Slack-Jack is the simplest slackline tool out there and works great.
The pulley system also works great but it is much more complicated to set up.
I didn't know there were any pro slackers. That would be cool. :lol:
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seafood_meowmix
Aug 26, 2004, 11:30 PM
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Registered: Jan 30, 2003
Posts: 63
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All right, I'll add this on here, just to help some of you out. Read this and you should be able to make your own rig.
http://www.climbingmadness.com/tips_tricks/mech_adv/ma.pdf
I've set up systems like this before, but I want to try it with pulleys and ropes.
Is it better to use static rope, or dynamic rope?
What are the pros and cons of each?
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