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beyond_gravity
May 5, 2002, 3:29 AM
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I was doing some harder aid today that I figger is about A2-3ish? Anyways, I had some pretty sketchy placements and I was extremly scared to stand up on them. When I got into my 2nd step and leaned back the biners allways seemed to shift, leaving me with a heart attack! Is there a way to stop this shifting from happening??
I'm also having problems with my daisy chains, when I stand up in my aiders it's very difficult to clip the biner into the daisy with one hand. I ended up using a chain of quickdraws for this and just droped the daisy.
Thanks,
Jeremy
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atg200
May 5, 2002, 3:44 PM
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Do a bunch of easy aid first to get your system dialed in. These sound like the typical snafu's that happen when you don't know what you are doing.
Biner shift is generally caused by not using ovals - what shape of binres are you using?
I don't know what you daisy problem is. Are you using adjustable daisys? It should be an easy smooth process to at least get in to your secod steps with adjustables. Don't use a quickdraw chain.
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spiffdog
May 6, 2002, 12:01 AM
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How many aiders are you using? When I started teaching myself, I only had two aiders, which means that when you hang both aiders on a placement, you have two biners shifting around in the placement biner. Scary! If you use two sets of two aiders, then you never have that problem. Each pair will only have one biner. I agree on the adjustable daisies. Each daisy gets a locker which stays attached to one pair of aiders. Pocketed daisies are so twentieth century.
Spiff
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beyond_gravity
May 6, 2002, 1:19 AM
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The my Daisy's are not adjustable. I'm going to look into getting one.
I have one home made aider, and the other "aider" is indeed not even an aider! it's an adjustable strap that I use for my canoe. It seems to work pretty good tho. I can't Afford aiders, I dont even have any cams, and I made my Cam Hooks in Shop. It seems to work best for me to only stand in one aider at a time, unless i'm top stepping.
I think I have to get my system more soild and organized, I have biners flying everywhere and sometimes I have to unclip servral biners so I can get my aiders out! I'm going to try and have one biner deicated to each aider, and only clip them to the biner that's connected to the gear....So if I do this do I clip my daisy to my Aider or too the biner holding the pro??
PS: I've decided on getting some ovals, do I need to have ovals for everything, or just for the aiders/daisy?
thats pretty confusing so I hope it makes sence.
Thanks,
Jeremy
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tenn_dawg
May 6, 2002, 1:36 AM
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DUDE,
I'm thinking that you may be getting in a little over your head here. I was always told that if your gonna do something, you might as well do it right. Your system sounds like it lacks any degree of safety. A chain of quickdraws is a very unpredictable thing, and shop class cam hooks? Canoe straps?
I guess you have to start somewhere, so if you must climb like this, I'd suggest doing so on a toprope. Then at least you would be absolutely safe, and if everything went to hell, you could just lower off, or free climb it.
And Metolius Adj. Dasies are WELL worth the cost.
Travis
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beyond_gravity
May 6, 2002, 1:44 AM
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Acculey all the aid i've done has been on TR solo, so i'm totally safe!
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full-time-climb
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May 6, 2002, 2:34 AM
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Dude,
You can tie a set of atriers from webbing. Grab a point 1/3 from one and and 2/3s from the other. Tie an overhand about 2" from this point. This is your clipping point. On the 1/3 side measure about 9" and on the 2/3 side measure about 18". Tie an overhand.
Repeat this till you run out of webbing. Don't do your overhands too tight as sometimes you will do some adjusting. When your happy you can make them very tight. make sure your steps are the same height. If you want to spruce them up you can:
1: Slip a 3" piece of webbing of another color over the Clip in point. you will see this on some store models. Wear protection
2: Slip a 6" piece of clear 3/8" gas line onto each 18" section of webbing. Pull this to the bottom of the step. This will hold your step open. It will however make you crazy as you pull it through when you have twisted your steps.
Have safe fun. You might want to tie a set of 5 steps and a set of 6 steps. Make one 5 & 6 the same color. Make the other 5 & 6 another color. These are each a set. When you step in the sixth, your next step will be into the fifth of the other...No sixth needed. The colors help you tell the differnent sets.
L8r
John
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crackaddict
May 6, 2002, 3:06 AM
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Hey Jeremy,
Get the right gear for the job. I tried homemade crap at first and had more headaches than anything.
I have a pair of Yates adjustable daisys.
They work great! They are super smooth and really quick and easy to use.
Well worth the purchase.
Basically they are thick tie down straps with bar tack stitching, Loops at each end and camming release buttons. Not much different than tie downs but they can hold much heavier loads.
Like the above oval biners won't shift like others because there are'nt any corners to hang up on. Also I keep a biner on my belay loop to clip in short while I am on the upper steps. This helps make things go faster.
Invest in some screamers if you are placing skethchy pro they are'nt to expensive and worth not blowing it.
As far as having no cams. Well what I used to do is I bought an asorment of leeper, fish, and bd aid hooks. Then I went to the sport crag and practiced on any overbolted hard sport routes. Basically bolt ladders. Bolt ladders are a good way to start and get you system down because all you need is biners, hooks and you might find a few cracks to pro. Plus you are hanging on bolts. No worries like marginal gear.
Hope this helps.
Chris.
[ This Message was edited by: crackaddict on 2002-05-05 20:33 ]
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beyond_gravity
May 6, 2002, 4:09 AM
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I'm not sure if I want to invest a lot of money into aid yet. I'm very new to it and I mainly only do it because I can't allways get a partner to belay me. I dont know if i'll ever want to lead hard aid, having the #9 hex pop and deck me in the face is nuff scaryness for me! I do have one homemade webbing aider. I'm thinking of making them old skool ones with the wooden steps.
Insted of getting adjustable daisy's I think i'm just gonna get another canoe strap. they have a steel cam that does not slip at all and Is easy to adjust. I like my canoe strap aider more then my home made webbing aider!
I dont think I really know what i'm doing, since I allways seem to have like 6 biners on my belay loop all tangled up! I'm going to get that Jon Long book, maybe that will get my system stright!
Thanks,
Jeremy
PS: It took me about an hour and 10 mins to aid a 40 foot pitch...is this normal or do I just suck?
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crackaddict
May 6, 2002, 4:24 AM
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Yeah thats kind of a long time to aid up something. There is a lot to learn in aid.
Organization and having a your systems down will really help.
But like I said the right gear really helps.
Those ladder type aiders will work. When I started I used some 1' tubular webbing and made loop aiders out of them.
I see you're point in not investing anything unless you are serious. It takes a lot of gear and a lot of work to aid. Emphasis on work.
Good luck!
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natec
May 6, 2002, 4:30 AM
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Jeremy,
Here's a link to a topic I found useful in learning aid movements.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=4212&forum=19&10
And this one has some great tips on what gear to use.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=5012&forum=19&16
I found them very helpful. Hope it works for you.
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glockaroo
May 6, 2002, 4:39 PM
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Jeremy said
>It took me about an hour and 10 mins to aid >a 40 foot pitch...is this normal or do I >just suck?
Don't worry man, everyone's slow when they first start aiding.
One of my first aid leads was a then-C3 at Looking Glass NC called "Electric Kool Aid". Depending on the expando effect each day it's either easy #3 Stoppers or bleak #1 RPs. It took me 6 hours to go 60 feet on the first pitch. The last 20 feet of that were leapfrogging my two #1 RPs in a valiant no-nail effort. Once I made it to a spot with an old bolt and a so-so tricam, I lost all my nerve and bailed.
I've gone back many times since and soloed the pitch in 1.5 hours.
You'll speed up. Just keep at it.
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atg200
May 6, 2002, 10:44 PM
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Your system sound like the aid equivalent of a guy with wrestling shoes and a construction harness going free climbing(I have seen this exact scenario happen at the gunks before), or ice climbing by driving some nails in to your boots and using 1 mountaineering axe.
Aiding with less than 4 aiders is always going to be a cluster. Buy or rig 4 aiders.
Aiding with a canoe strap and one daisy is always going to be a cluster. Adjustable daisy chains aren't very expensive - get a minimum wage job and you will be able to buy aiders and daisys in less than a week.
Ovals are cheap, and you need lots of biners for aiding. Read up on Pete's posts about moving systems - I am a convert to the locking biner/petzl spirit system on each daisy/aider setup.
Over an hour for a 40' pitch is pretty slow, particularly if toproping. You'll speed up a lot if you get some better gear - it makes a difference. You'll also speed up if you log some time on bolt ladders just getting your system down. It is amazing how much itme can be saved just by being efficient, and efficiency is hard to learn while gripped or making hard placements.
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