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Stacking stoppers in a crack?!
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yay_chris


Aug 6, 2004, 9:11 PM
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Stacking stoppers in a crack?!
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Stacking stoppers:
If the crack is too big for your biggest stopper, you can jam two together (one upsidedown) to make a single placement that fits the crack.

I've been reading about this technique in a climbing book. It looks mighty hardcore, but, also pretty sketch.

Has anyone on this site ever needed,to use this type of placement?
Is it really that solid?

For sure - at the very least - its an impressive party trick!


phugganut


Aug 6, 2004, 9:28 PM
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Stacking stoppers... If the crack is too big for your biggest stopper... Has anyone on this site ever needed,to use this type of placement...?

Of course not. That's what hexes are for!

I have stacked hexes on very rare occasions, be never taken a lead fall on that type of placement. I have taken TR falls on anchors with stacked hexes as ONE of the anchor points, just for the heck of it, and they've held. -Mike


yay_chris


Aug 6, 2004, 9:43 PM
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Yeah, it seems like it's primary use is for one of those situations when you have no other options.


lv2climb7


Aug 6, 2004, 9:47 PM
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maculated


Aug 6, 2004, 11:16 PM
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I've done it twice: once just to see how it worked while waiting for my partner to figure out what route he wanted to do in J Tree - damn near fixed both nuts. If you do it right, it works MARVELOUSLY.

And another time at a situation when I just did not have the cam I wanted and since I always carry two sets of nuts, what are you going to do? I don't think I'd ever think of stacking nuts during a lead though - just at the top for anchors.


howlermonkey


Aug 7, 2004, 12:40 AM
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This is an old British technique, and it works really well, especially for an Alpine rack. Remember when you could buy just stoppers w/out the wire? You (nylon) sling two stoppers on the same sling with the smaller one on top, that way you can use either or both, and if you fold the top one over to stack 'em, you have an incredibly strong placement.


Partner rrrADAM


Aug 7, 2004, 1:47 AM
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This is an old British technique, and it works really well, especially for an Alpine rack. Remember when you could buy just stoppers w/out the wire? You (nylon) sling two stoppers on the same sling with the smaller one on top, that way you can use either or both, and if you fold the top one over to stack 'em, you have an incredibly strong placement.

This is the only way to do this with normal stoppers IMHO, and end up with a bomber placement... I think Curt showed me this in JTree last winter. Great trick.

But for anything bigger than a #13 stopper placed sideways, I use a hex. I have sizes 7-11 just for this reason. A #11 sideways is pretty big, and since mine are wired, it's pretty easy to place with one had.

Messing with stacking stoppers is kinda hard onless you have both hands free, especially if they are not slung as described above.


afiveonbelay


Aug 7, 2004, 10:56 AM
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If you think leading above some stacked nuts is breathtaking, try T-stacked hexes. Had to do this once because I missread the guidebook and the line and didn't take any big cams, so when I traversed back on route, I was damn lucky that I had dragged up the cowbells.


dredsovrn


Aug 7, 2004, 11:04 AM
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I have seen it, but would have to be pretty desparate to give it a shot. The theory is good, and it would likely work if you did it just right. You would need a really good stance (like hands free) so you could F around with it to get it right. Last ditch only for me, but it doesn't hurt to be aware of it. You never know when you will run out of ditches.


Partner coylec


Aug 7, 2004, 4:07 PM
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Just remember, if you want to add this little trick to your toolbox, you need to practice it first on the ground ... otherwise, its just a parlour trick.

coylec


iclimblilrocks


Aug 7, 2004, 4:35 PM
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buy a couple cams... or a "big bro"


radistrad


Aug 7, 2004, 6:31 PM
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Stack-able nuts!
http://photos.rockclimbing.com/products/16/1651L.jpg

http://www.rockclimbing.com/gear/product.php?p=1651


howlermonkey


Aug 7, 2004, 7:09 PM
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coylec - yea and verily! Do try this at home. And in response to another post, keep a long sling or aider in your back pocket and jump on the piece. It's better to learn the laws of physics in the horizontal plane, 'cause the death penalty applies in the vertical.


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Aug 7, 2004, 7:51 PM
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[quote:2e80a46fc3="yay_chris"]Stacking stoppers:
If the crack is too big for your biggest stopper, you can jam two together (one upsidedown) to make a single placement that fits the crack.

I've been reading about this technique in a climbing book. It looks mighty hardcore, but, also pretty sketch.

Has anyone on this site ever needed,to use this type of placement?
Is it really that solid?

For sure - at the very least - its an impressive party trick![/quote:2e80a46fc3]


well, chris, you might be interested to know the technique is neither hardcore, nor sketch. in fact, most anyone with 20 or more years worth of climbing under their belt will tell you that stacked stoppers were the original camming device. with one stopper ramped up against another, the principle is essentially the same as our high-tech cams, too: a downward force is turned into an outward force, hopefully the better to keep those puppies welded in place.

at last count there were something on the order of 150 different spring loaded camming devices on the market, and available for your immediate -- and one-handed -- plugging into most any size crack. but remember: it was not always so, grasshopper.

would i go back to stacking stoppers at every turn? hell no! but like a biner brake rappel or a munter hitch, it is a technique well worth knowing.


gambler


Aug 8, 2004, 11:56 PM
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Stacking nuts is almost as old as nuts themselves!I have stacked nuts many times until the day when Ray Jardine enlightened us with one of the greatest inventions(actually Jeff Lowe invented the first SLCD but Jardine had the engineering knowledge to put it into action,but that is another story) since the wheel.

One time,on a first ascent in the Black Canyon of the Gunnison I happened opon a 6" crack thru a 20' roof....and since i had yet to perfect my 5.12 offwidth roof skills(wait...I never did perfect those yet...doh)now what?

After looking at my rack a lightbulb went off in my head...I could stack a #11 hex with a #7(or whatever size was the 2nd largest)Forrest Titon,it held body weight,so I took my #10 hex and stacked it with the #8 Titon and it held body weight...but as soon as I got on the new stack the 1st one fell out,so I just took it and leapfrogged it to the next placement and of course the other one fell out when it was unweighted...but i made it to the lip and as soon as my knee was established in the crack above the lip it was a garden variety 5.9 vertical offwidth until the crack eventually narrowed to hands!

I guess now a #5 camalot would make it totally casual.


crackboy


Aug 9, 2004, 12:59 PM
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i have stacked hexes on lead, only had to do it once when it counted. it was protecting the crux offwidth on Baby at the gunks. thing was pretty bomber and i would have been comfortable testing it.

not so hardcore


graniteavenger


Aug 25, 2004, 6:19 PM
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Dig in and stack!! Just don't try it with cams!!! :wink:


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