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dynamicpanda
Aug 11, 2004, 12:44 AM
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Probably Will Harton. I cant think of anybody that has done more for the sport of climbing than he has.
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vivalargo
Aug 18, 2004, 7:10 PM
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In my mind this is an easy question to answer: Royal Robbins. He set the table for everything that has followed these last 40 years. No doubt about it.
JL
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bobd1953
Aug 19, 2004, 10:32 PM
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JL wrote: In my mind this is an easy question to answer: Royal Robbins. He set the table for everything that has followed these last 40 years. No doubt about it.
JL
A sport as broad as climbing it would almost be impossible to anwser such a question. Personal choice is easy to anwser and seems to be the trend in this tread. Oliver Perry, Albert Ellingwood, Joe Brown, Don Whillans. John Stannard, Henry Barber, Ron Kauk, Walter Bonnati and so on would be my choices.
Each generation stands on the shoulders of the previous one.
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climb_plastic
Aug 19, 2004, 11:12 PM
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There's no doubt these people climbed and influenced climbing just for the love of it because they didn't do it for fame.....I've never heard of any of them.
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bobd1953
Aug 19, 2004, 11:40 PM
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In reply to: There's no doubt these people climbed and influenced climbing just for the love of it because they didn't do it for fame.....I've never heard of any of them.
That's sad.
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berserk
Aug 20, 2004, 12:24 AM
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Henry Barber (aka Hot Henry)....!?
Tobin Sorensen....!?
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bvb
Aug 20, 2004, 2:25 AM
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In reply to: William Wordsworth. English Romantic poet 1770-1850 or so. Wrote "The Prelude" (which has a section on walking and scrambling in the high alps)
if we're gonna get all literary n' stuff, let's not forget these guys: Auden's play "The Ascent Of F6", which is and was probably the best climbing play ever written, still rocks my world every time I read it.
And John Menlove Edwards kicked ass as a climber and a writer. "You Rock, You Heaviness" is hands down the best effort ever to express the basic, elemental attraction of climbing through poetry.
About 25 years ago, through interlibrary loan, I got the only copy of the JME anthology "Samson" that was in the US and not in private hands -- it came from the the library of congress! It was priceless. And they loaned it out! O God, the temptation to say i lost it, or it was stolen from my dorm room along with my bookbag, was horrendous......
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sbclimber
Aug 20, 2004, 3:03 AM
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maybe it is just b/c I love sierra granite soooo much, but I would have to say I think that John Muir has influenced modern day climbing the most(around these parts).
At least around Yosemite and further south in the Sierras. He established the attitude that these mountains and areas are truly cherishable.
He got the ball rolling on protecting some of the most beautiful scenery this country has to offer.
He was instrumental in getting the Sierra Club started in 1892.
I think Yvon Chouinard (spelling?) had it right when he named one of the most beautiful lines up one of the most beautiful rocks in the world after him, The Muir Wall on the SW face of El Cap.
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dood
Aug 20, 2004, 4:33 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: As far as "influenced", I'd have to go with Edward Whymper. With"Scrambles Amongst the Alps", he brought and popularized climbing to the English speaking masses. And, not at a blue blood only level. In modern daze, I'd have to go with Chouinard and Frost for their state of the art design of equipment and the move to clean climbing. Ray Jardine for the now common active camming device. I would suggest that Alfred Mummery is maybe the single most important person in all the sport. T'was he who first began climbing peaks for their difficulty alone and t'was he who did so without guides. He scandalized the BAC beause (gasp!) he was a tanner, not an aristocrat. He wrote trip reports and took lots of photos. In short, Mummery brought climbing to the common man and demonstrated that the common man could climb circles around the nobelmen and aristocrats who preceeded him. Have to agree with the Chouinard / Frost angle, but that is an American perspective. Bonatti, Petzl and others may have a greater claim of influence world wide though. Cheers DMT
All good choices. Might I suggest Hermann Buhl? It was he that came up with the idea of alpine style climbing in the Himalayas. He climbed 8000 meter peaks without oxygen when Messner was still a rugrat.
The Duke of the Abruzzi was also a huge influence in the alpine arena.
And let's not forget that the most amazing climb ever was Edward Norton's attempt on Everest in 1924. With nothing more than an ice axe he set an altitude record that stood for 30(?) years.
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kalcario
Aug 20, 2004, 5:31 AM
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Who has most influenced the sport of rock climbing as it is today? For free climbing...
John Gill
Ron Kauk
Patrick Edlinger
In that order.
Gill invented gymnastic movement on rock.
Kauk took that movement from the boulders to the cliffs, and was the first (and still the only!) boulder/free climb/big wall all-around virtuoso. Nobody before or since has been at the cutting edge of bouldering, free climbing and big walls all at the same time, which is mind boggling from today's perspective of specialization. He was also the biggest influence on...
Edlinger, who germinated Europe with that gymnastic movement and basically fathered limestone sport climbing as pursuit worthy of Olympic-level training, which is the crucible that has driven free climbing ever since.
My personal choice for most influential rock climber ever, the guy who bridged the gap between the Golden Age of Yosemite (from which, let's face it, modern rock climbing emerged), and the current era... drum roll please...
Jim Bridwell
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curt
Aug 20, 2004, 5:38 AM
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In reply to: Who has most influenced the sport of rock climbing as it is today? For free climbing... John Gill Ron Kauk Patrick Edlinger In that order.
Funny you would give top honors to John Gill (although I agree) since you relish in bashing everything related to bouldering at each opportunity.
Curt
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kalcario
Aug 20, 2004, 5:49 AM
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*Funny you would give top honors to John Gill (although I agree) since you relish in bashing everything related to bouldering at each opportunity.*
Influence and impact being 2 different things. Les Paul, for instance, had the most influence as an innovator, but Jimi Hendrix had far more impact applying that innovation.
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curt
Aug 20, 2004, 5:59 AM
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In reply to: *Funny you would give top honors to John Gill (although I agree) since you relish in bashing everything related to bouldering at each opportunity.* Influence and impact being 2 different things. Les Paul, for instance, had the most influence as an innovator, but Jimi Hendrix had far more impact applying that innovation.
OK, gotcha. So the boulderers innovate and then the sportclimbers try to emulate this, but instead inject heroin into their temples and die. That's a fair analysis. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Curt
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climb_plastic
Aug 20, 2004, 6:17 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: There's no doubt these people climbed and influenced climbing just for the love of it because they didn't do it for fame.....I've never heard of any of them. That's sad.
No...I think it's great! Climbing is not about getting fame.
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crag
Aug 20, 2004, 12:07 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: There's no doubt these people climbed and influenced climbing just for the love of it because they didn't do it for fame.....I've never heard of any of them. That's sad. No...I think it's great! Climbing is not about getting fame.
Yes it is great but it's still sad that you hadn't heard of any of them, (Bob D's point in the 1st place).
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bvb
Aug 20, 2004, 3:59 PM
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In reply to: Kauk took that movement from the boulders to the cliffs, and was the first (and still the only!) boulder/free climb/big wall all-around virtuoso.
joe while i agree that this is a very exclusive club, i humbly submit that you left a few folks out:
bill price
kevin worral
steve sutton
mike graham
all four of these guys were cutting edge wall climbers; free climbers (short/hard/free, long/hard/free, etc); and boulderers. and, as good all-arounders alwyas do, they practiced all three disciplines simultaneously.
and with worral, you can throw in the f.a. of the widow's tears for good measure...
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bobd1953
Aug 20, 2004, 4:09 PM
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In reply to: joe while i agree that this is a very exclusive club, i humbly submit that you left a few folks out: bill price kevin worral steve sutton mike graham all four of these guys were cutting edge wall climbers; free climbers (short/hard/free, long/hard/free, etc); and boulderers. and, as good all-arounders alwyas do, they practiced all three disciplines simultaneously. and with worral, you can throw in the f.a. of the widow's tears for good measure...
Yeah but Kauk took it a step farther, embraced sport-climbing, traveled and climbed at the highest level for many years. Amazing that he could be so good at so many disciplines for so-so long and be the nice guy that he is.
What about Dale Bard in that group?
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bvb
Aug 20, 2004, 4:41 PM
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yeah, bard, most definately. p.o. wall, transporter room, first or early ascents of all the hard valley free climbs; he's in the club.
ricky accommazzo would be another. not to mention the stuff he and tobin did in the alps -- really hard alpine shit.
and then there's tobin himself -- i might even pick him as the best all-rounder in history -- better than anybody, ever -- the gold standard in doing it all, and doing it at the highest and hardest levels.
the more you think about it, the more you recall the surplus of genuis-level all 'rounders who never sought or recieved much ink, and whom history is slowly forgetting.
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bobd1953
Aug 20, 2004, 5:07 PM
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In reply to: the more you think about it, the more you recall the surplus of genuis-level all 'rounders who never sought or recieved much ink, and whom history is slowly forgetting.
It is quite sad how new climbers care so little about history. How could a boulderer not know about John Gill, Bob Murray or Jim Holloway.
Climbers are so generic now.
I glad that I started climbing in the 1971. To me that era will alway be the golden era of free climbing.
Who remember Henry Barber on Wide World of Sports (American Sportmans) sea-cliff climbing with Pete Livesy. First time I thing rock climbing got major coverage on major tv station.
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dingus
Aug 20, 2004, 5:07 PM
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In reply to: the more you think about it, the more you recall the surplus of genuis-level all 'rounders who never sought or recieved much ink, and whom history is slowly forgetting.
ie. People who had little to no real influence on climbing.
Being the best at something doesn't automatically translate to 'influence.'
I'd also toss in Hot Henry Barber. Bouldering. Free climbing. Big Walls pushed free as can be. Grade V ice climbs. Legendary free solos. Plus he traveled extensively and shattered the existing free climbing standards almost whereever he went, exporting boldness and an uncompromising style.
Unfortunately the better part of his influence died about 20 years ago.
The greatest influence on climbing has been in the arena of gear. So you have to look to innovators like Chouinard, Cassin, and Frost and others.
The Lowe Clan rates pretty damn high to me. So does Ray Jardine in a current context.
DMT
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mingus
Aug 20, 2004, 5:26 PM
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In reply to: It is quite sad how new climbers care so little about history. How could a boulderer not know about John Gill, Bob Murray or Jim Holloway.
True Bob - but this is just an extension of most folks' historical ignorance in general. Most people have always cared little for history and it just seems to be getting worse. Even really recent history is completely lost on most.
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cadreamin
Aug 20, 2004, 5:30 PM
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Easy one...R. Jardine and R. Robbins! Who doesn't own nuts and cams. This opened endless amounts of climbing and not only that will allow it to remain climbable for a long time. The scars of "pre-clean" climbing are still obvious today. Think about todays climbing traffic and what well traveled routes would look like or better yet how short their life span would be.
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jv
Aug 20, 2004, 6:18 PM
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In reply to: Easy one...R. Jardine and R. Robbins! Who doesn't own nuts and cams.
I wonder how many new European climbers own nuts and cams now, and how many others who do own them leave them at home because there are so many routes that can be climbed without them. Even in the U.S. most climbers learn in the gym now, and first own a rack of draws.
Joe made a good point (!) by distinguishing influence from impact. You can't answer this question without precisely defining 'influence' and 'climbing.'
JV
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bvb
Aug 20, 2004, 6:30 PM
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In reply to: ie. People who had little to no real influence on climbing.
if you think tobin sorenson had little or no influence on climbing, you are wildly misinformed. the climbing he did had a great effect on his peers -- all "name-brand" climbers who have been mentioned in this thread as "influential.
In reply to: The greatest influence on climbing has been in the arena of gear. So you have to look to innovators like Chouinard, Cassin, and Frost and others.
yeah, as i mentioned on page one or two of this thread, the person/s who hd the single greatest impact on climbing were the people who invented the perlon kernmantle rope, which set the stage for everything that has happened since. but i think this discussion has evolved beyond that stage some time ago.
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bobd1953
Aug 20, 2004, 6:37 PM
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In reply to: Robbins embraced clean climbing, but Chouinard brought the idea here from England, improved on it with his design and manufacture of stoppers and hexes, and supplied most climbers with gear for twenty years.
That's not true, Robbins was the one who bought back nuts and climbed with Joe Brown and Don Whillians while in England. Tom Frost should be credited with a number of great designs while at GPIW.
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