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sustainedclimber
Aug 10, 2004, 5:24 AM
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I'm looking to build myself a trad rack from the bottem up. From my minimal traditional leading experience I've come to like U-Stemmed cams, and because of my situation ($discounts$), I'm pretty sure I'm going to go with the Metolius power cams. I have one question that I hope someone will know the answer to. DMM claims that all of their 4CU cams have a rating of 14kns, including the smallest size!! The power cams claim a power of 13.3 kns except for size 1 and 2 which claim 8 kns and 0 and 00 which claim 4.4 kns. My question is this: How is it possible that DMM's microcams can hold the same as their larger counterparts, and that all are slightly stronger than the power cams. For someone who is contemplating spending a lot of money, I want to know why I would choose Metolius cams if they are literally weaker...especially in the smaller sizes.
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cgailey
Aug 10, 2004, 6:04 AM
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This is a good question, and one that I have no business trying to answer completely (no pHD in physics :wink: ), but if you notice, the DMM cams have better holding power than the Power Cams in the smaller sizes; however the power cams hold better in larger sizes. Here are some specs to look at, if you haven't already:
DMM 4cu's
· size 0.5 / 13 - 19mm / 14kN / 77g / violet
· size 0.75 / 17 - 24mm / 14kN / 82g / green
· size 1 / 19 - 29mm / 14kN / 94g / blue
· size 1.25 / 21 - 33mm / 14kN / 96g / silver
· size 1.5 / 22 - 35mm / 14kN / 98g / gold
· size 1.75 / 25 - 41mm / 14kN / 102g / red
· size 2 / 29 - 44mm / 12kN / 110g / violet
· size 2.5 / 33 - 55mm / 12kN / 124g / green
· size 3 / 43 - 66mm / 12kN / 138g / blue
· size 3.5 / 51 - 82mm / 12kN / 160g / silver
· size 4 / 64 - 100mm / 12kN / 190g / gold
Metolius Power Cams:
· Size 2 / 15.75 - 24.64mm / 8.8kN / 79.3g / yellow
· Size 3 / 18.8 - 28.7mm / 13.3kN / 96.4g / orange
· Size 4 / 23.62 - 35.56mm / 13.3kN / 105.4g / red
· Size 5 / 27.6 - 41.66mm / 13.3kN / 112g / black
· Size 6 / 32.5 - 50.29mm / 13.3kN / 124.4g / green
· Size 7 / 49.88 - 60.96mm / 13.3kN / 167.3g / blue
· Size 8 / 48.5 - 74.17mm / 13.3kN / 207g / purple
· Size 9 / 59.18 - 90.68mm / 13.3kN / 263.7g / wine
· Size 10 / 72.14 - 110.5mm / 13.3kN /340.2g / navy
One thing that may contribute to the decreased holding power is the greater expansion range that the power cams have in the smaller sizes...approximately 3mm more than the DMM's. Above a number 2 power cam; however, there is very little difference and the Metolius cams seem to have more consistent holding power.
Another area to consider is long term durability...DMM's have a lot of plastic parts, which make them lighter, but also make them weaker. Power cams are all metal...you make the connection. If I had to choose, I would go with the power cams, even though both are great cams.
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barc
Aug 10, 2004, 7:10 AM
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I'm not going to claim to know what I'm talking about either (although I am graduate student in physics :) ). I will say that I tend to be a bit skeptical of some of the strength rating on gear. I just think they can be a bit subjective. I seriously doubt that dmm cams are any stronger than metolious despite the larger strenght ratings. And I'm sure dmm cams are fine too.
There are many factors that contribute to a piece blowing and a company can take as many of those into acount as they want.
You should ask metoious this question. See you.
Elliott
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paganmonkeyboy
Aug 10, 2004, 9:36 AM
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In reply to: DMM's have a lot of plastic parts, which make them lighter, but also make them weaker.
hmmm...not sure about this one - besides the little plastic tube on the handle, what else is plastic on them ? they look all metal to me - I think the weight comes from the milling of the lobes, and the lightweight metals for the trigger, etc...what other parts are plastic ? inside the axles ?
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justin
Aug 10, 2004, 10:43 AM
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Metolius have quite an interesting and unique rating system. Although a the smallest of their cams are equal to their peers' in a lab, Metolius feel it highly unlikely you'll ever be able to find such a placemnet on the rock. The rock surfaces would be reduced to powder and the cam would rip. This is due to the force exerted over a very small area. Personally, I'd say Metolius' ratings are a lot more useful.
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euroford
Aug 10, 2004, 11:55 AM
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well, they are rated in diffrent ways. DMM cams are CE rated, Metolious cams are rated by Metolious. I still trust the cams becouse i realize they are being very conservative, but its apple to organges. i really don't know what the criteria is.
search around the website and do some serious compairsons before you deciede which cams you want. IMO, i would never buy even one powercam, i think they are a very poor design in compairson to others on the market. i own a set of DMM's and think they are beyond awsome, probobly some of the best cams money can buy right now.
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sustainedclimber
Aug 10, 2004, 4:08 PM
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I find it hilarious that you guys said whether you could answer my question based on a knowledge of Physics. Being a physics major I claim no knowledge of the differences either! Thanks for the legitimate responses...sometimes they are hard to come by on this site. I think I will send out a letter to Metolius and see what they have to say...I just figured I'd get a more unbiased opinion first. If anyone else has any info feel free to share, I'm all ears.
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ropeburn
Aug 10, 2004, 4:20 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: DMM's have a lot of plastic parts, which make them lighter, but also make them weaker. hmmm...not sure about this one - besides the little plastic tube on the handle, what else is plastic on them ? *snip*
Agreed.
The only plastic on mine are the aforementioned protective plastic tubing.
Take a closer look at them.
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bubba
Aug 10, 2004, 7:03 PM
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DMM = good
Metolius = good
Try each and then decide. They both work.
I went with the DMMs because they were lighter, and stronger (and cheaper) than the Metolius when I was buying.
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bubba
Aug 10, 2004, 7:13 PM
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DMM = good
Metolius = good
Try each and then decide. They both work.
I went with the DMMs because they were lighter, and stronger (and cheaper) than the Metolius when I was buying.
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ikellen
Aug 10, 2004, 7:36 PM
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I got the DMMs because the place where I bought them didnt have the Metolius'. Both are very good cams, I like the lightness of the DMMs, but both have about the same holding power and range. I also like the coloring of the DMMs, but thats just personal preferrence.
And for refference, the only plastic piece is the clear tubing on the handing. Everything else is metal.
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omenbringer
Aug 10, 2004, 11:11 PM
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In reply to: size 2 / 29 - 44mm / 12kN / 110g / violet · size 2.5 / 33 - 55mm / 12kN / 124g / green · size 3 / 43 - 66mm / 12kN / 138g / blue · size 3.5 / 51 - 82mm / 12kN / 160g / silver · size 4 / 64 - 100mm / 12kN / 190g / gold
In reply to: One thing that may contribute to the decreased holding power is the greater expansion range that the power cams have in the smaller sizes...approximately 3mm more than the DMM's. Above a number 2 power cam; however, there is very little difference and the Metolius cams seem to have more consistent holding power
In reply to: Another area to consider is long term durability...DMM's have a lot of plastic parts, which make them lighter, but also make them weaker. Power cams are all metal...you make the connection
In the end I would say that CSoles would probably be the best person to ask, after all he did right the Mother of All Cam Charts
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oafy
Aug 10, 2004, 11:26 PM
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I own both metolius Power cams, TCU's as well as the DMM cams, they both are well balanced cams. It all comes down to preference As for the ratings, if something is going to pull then its goin pull either way Metolius or DMM. A shitty placement is a shitty placement, rock is rock, if you bail you bail. Just something to think about.
Just Dont Bail on a 00 metolius, wont be fun!
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sustainedclimber
Aug 22, 2004, 7:04 AM
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Well after thinking long and hard I decided to go with the DMM's. I was able to get a decent deal on them which made them not too much more expensive than the Power Cams would have been. I'm currently waiting for the shipment to come in. SO EXCITED. Once again thanks to all who responded.
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omenbringer
Aug 22, 2004, 9:53 PM
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In reply to: Well after thinking long and hard I decided to go with the DMM's. I was able to get a decent deal on them which made them not too much more expensive than the Power Cams would have been. I'm currently waiting for the shipment to come in. SO EXCITED. Once again thanks to all who responded. |
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euroford
Aug 23, 2004, 2:33 AM
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i've not laid my fingers on the pro-wires, but they do look purdy. if i had the bucks the first thing i would do is buy a matching set of prowires for my dmm cams. in the meantime i'm using bd ovalwires, in the future i'll go to either nuetrino's or spluge on the pw's. but certainly, on such a nice light set of cams do them justice and rack them on some nice light wiregates. nuetrino's, pw's, trango superflys, something like that.
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sustainedclimber
Aug 23, 2004, 3:23 PM
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for now I'm going to use bd ovalwires as money is definitely an issue. I took a look at those prowires and loved how the color coding transceded to them as well. Later down the road if I decide to toss more money at my rack I'll get them. Thanks for the heads up!
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