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Alas another trad newbie...
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veganclimbr


Aug 22, 2004, 12:36 PM
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Alas another trad newbie...
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So Iíve decided to hop onto the sharp end of the rope and make a real climber out of myself. I went on a NOLS trip this summer and learned allot about leading and got a few easy climbs under my belt. Well Iíve caught the bug and am going gear crazy. Problem being I have no one to follow or whose rack to use so I'm looking for some input specifically on this package deal http://www.pagangear.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=226. I have a set of DMM walnuts and a set of Metolius hexes already and I know the robot discussion has been done to death and have no questions about that but as a beginners rack does this seem adequate? Any input is GREATLY appreciated as I'm kind of doing this on my own without anyone to guide me :cry:


caughtinside


Aug 22, 2004, 1:17 PM
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Re: Alas another trad newbie... [In reply to]
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Doesn't look like that great of a deal, especially since you already have a set of nuts. Perhaps look into just getting a set of Robots? I think I've read in other posts that people have gotten the set of 8 for 200 bucks or so.

Then you can spend the rest of your cash on biners and slings. You should probably have at least 30-35 biners, and 8-10 shoulder length slings.

If you're looking to save cash on slings, you can make them yourself cheaply by buying 5' lengths of webbing and tying them with water knots. Leave long tails on the knots, and inspect them often. At .25 a foot, these $1.25 slings are a bargain over $6+ sewn slings. THe knot is annoying, but you can replace them over time.

Also, I think a cordelette is a good idea. A 20' should run about 7 bucks or so.

Have fun out there!


roboclimber


Aug 22, 2004, 1:22 PM
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Re: Alas another trad newbie... [In reply to]
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I am a new trad climber as well; I was thinking about buying robot cams, but then I read some of the reviews. I bought a set of Metolius FCU's on sale at gear express. It ran a bit more than the robot cams, but after using these units (the robot cams), I was very glad I saved my money. Metolius, BD, and Wild Country seem to be the trend in SLCD's among the more experienced climbers I hang out with. If you cut corners now to save money, it will only cost you in the end. Check out bittersweet gear if you want a decent package. I know there have been a lot of complaints about these folks on this site, but I have received good service from them (not terrific, just good; gear express has terrific service). Just my two cents.


kennycardiscrazy


Aug 22, 2004, 1:47 PM
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Re: Alas another trad newbie... [In reply to]
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BD cams. just buy a few at a time if you can. they are the best and will last forever. For the smaller size cams Aliens are great, they are a bit more flexible so you can sneak them in hard placements. If you make your shoulder length slings, tape the tails from the knot to keep it a bit more secure.


brutusofwyde


Aug 22, 2004, 2:59 PM
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BD cams. (snip) they are the best and will last forever.

As one who has replaced every single broken trigger wire on every single BD cam I ever purchased, I strongly disagree.

Brutus


omenbringer


Aug 22, 2004, 3:13 PM
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Since we are suggesting cam alternatives, might I suggest the DMM four cam units you can usually get a full set in a package deal for about $400.00. A full set has 11 pieces.


nswelton


Aug 22, 2004, 4:03 PM
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Hey dude,

Read your post about a trad rack and thought Iíd offer some input. Itís better to spend a little more in the beginning and not get annoyed as you get better. When I started climbing I did things on the cheap, and now Iím regretting it beause Iím better and I want better equipment. LikeÖ at one point I bought a number of off-brand cams to supplement my black diamond cams, and now Iíve sold off all the off-brand ones and replaced them with more BDs. SoÖ dunno. I wish Iíd just have spent the money right the first time. Camalots may be more expensive, but they donít walk as often as the lesser cams. Next time youíre on a 5.10 handcrack and your cam walks deep into the crack and you canít get it, youíre gonna be pissed off that you bought the clog cam you just lost instead of the BD or the WC.

And donít make your own slings! Theyíre really really annoying. Theyíre big and theyíre hard to double up and shorten because theyíre so bulky. For just a little more you can get nice sewn slings for cheap. Go to rei.com and get the house brand sewn sling. Or a lot of the online climbing shops have non-name-brand sewn slings that arenít terribly more expensive, like pagangear.com. Try to get spectra slings, too. Theyíre lighter and less of a hassle.

Also, please please please donít get robots. They really suck. I have a few and I only break them out in Indian creek when I go there and need 8 cams of the same size. For day to day use i use Camalots, .5, .75, 1, 2, 3. WC Friends are also great, as are Metolius in third. For the smaller cams look at aliens or metolius.

Whatever you do, donít mix brands up. Iím annoyed that Ií;ve got cams from every freakin manufacturer out there. I wish I had just done it right and had all the same brand, or maybe two brands.

Step one: buy a set of quickdraws if you donít already have them. Get them with longer slings if you do mostly trad.
Step 2: buy about 6 8 shoulder length slings to extend your placements
Step 3: buy big cams. (.5 to 3 in CAmalots)
Step 4: buy small cams (smallest five aliens or smallest five metolius)


dalguard


Aug 23, 2004, 10:37 AM
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Re: Alas another trad newbie... [In reply to]
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Unlike ropes and shoes, which you'll need to replace as you learn anyway, your cams could last your entire climbing career. Get the ones you'll want now and 10 years from now. Spend more if you can or buy more slowly if you have to. I know you're anxious to get started, but some extra time and money now will be nothing spread over the life of your rack.

That said, it's not uncommon for people to end up with two sets of cams eventually so you could buy your second choice first if they're cheaper. Just don't buy your last choice because they're cheapest.


skateman


Aug 23, 2004, 11:38 AM
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Vegan,

The robot's make a great starter set. I prefer the robot's up to size 3 over the metolius. Robot sizes 3 & 4 however are somewhat narrow (read unstable), but will work if the placement is very sound.

If you don't have the bucks and want to start leading right away, go with the robot's. They will make a great doubles set at the very least when you start replacing them with a better cam. ( tech friends, camalots, aliens)

S-man

PS> The package deal looks mediocre. You will need 25ish biners and 10 24" runners
as well.


beesty511


Aug 23, 2004, 12:25 PM
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Get the ones you'll want now and 10 years from now.

Any cam you buy now will be obsolete in five years.

When the new BD cams hit the market next year, the old style will probably go on sale at a serious discount, and people will be dumping their used old style BD cams for cheap--in fact you may notice people trying to sell them now before the bottom drops out of the market. If you wait a little while, you could probably pick up a set of good used BD cams and get the slings replaced for cheap.


glowering


Aug 23, 2004, 12:29 PM
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Robots suck. One of my partners has some. The quality isn't there and they get fixed/stuck easier than anything else. Lose one cam and that's the cost of the difference to buy a good set of cams.

I have BD but if I did it over I'd give serious thought to DMM. Light and cheap.

Aliens for the small cams, and offset aliens for the 2nd set of small cams.

12-15 slings, lightweight biners, 2 cordelettes.


jiadar


Aug 23, 2004, 12:59 PM
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You can get metolius cams now cheap, that they have come out with the new "rangefinder" cams. LOL. REI outlet has them at 20% off now, and if you went to the store and bought a whole set I'm sure you could get 30% off. I'd definately go with the higher quality gear. And at 30% off, you could get a set of 10 FCU's at about $350.


beesty511


Aug 23, 2004, 1:05 PM
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The Metolius FCU's aren't on sale at Rei outlet--it's the TCU's that are on sale and there are only 3 sizes on sale.


omenbringer


Aug 23, 2004, 1:20 PM
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Any cam you buy now will be obsolete in five years.
WC stills makes and sells the original forged friends, clog still makes and sells the original WC tech friend, and people still use and covet the u stem BD's. True next year there will be a plethora of new designs on the market, but I don't think any will make the others obsolete.


haggis


Aug 23, 2004, 1:55 PM
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I noticed brutusofwyde made a comment on replacing trigger wires on BD cams.On a seperate note from the original post...(sorry mayby this should be a new post :oops: ),how do you do this?I have spent years building a rack of BD cams and inevitably trigger wires have got bent.I could use any tips on how to maintain the expensive little beasts.
For example should you attempt to straighten trigger wires?
Cheers


omenbringer


Aug 23, 2004, 2:26 PM
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I noticed brutusofwyde made a comment on replacing trigger wires on BD cams.On a seperate note from the original post...(sorry mayby this should be a new post :oops: ),how do you do this?I have spent years building a rack of BD cams and inevitably trigger wires have got bent.I could use any tips on how to maintain the expensive little beasts.
For example should you attempt to straighten trigger wires?
Cheers
BD used to make a trigger replacement kit for there cams, I saw a couple at REI. Other than that there is always the kit from Cam Doctor. Have heard good things, but dont have personal experience with it. Failing that I have also read on this site you can get the raw materials from a hardware store and do it yourself. same question posted Dec 30 2003.


stymingersfink


Aug 23, 2004, 2:44 PM
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To start a new topic, go to the forum page (Trad in this case, or gear heads might work too) click the NEW TOPIC button (top and bottom of topics listing) and post up.

Now, as far as the triger wire thing goes, my .02.

The steel wire that goes through the cam head can be fine tuned to give good clearance around the cam lobes. Use a pair of needle nosed pliers.

The cable wires themselves I never really mess with. When they begin to fray, they usually do so at the swage point. Constant flexing causes the wire to weaken to the point of breakage.

Typically first one steel thread, then another, then oh-my-god. I will usually trim the first loose wire back, and start looking for a replacement trigger kit for the size/style cam I am dealing with.

Follow the directions for trigger wire replacement, paying attention to which side of the cam lobe the wire is inserted into.

Other option, send them into the BD Warranty Service Center. They will replace the triggers with the button head wires found on new cams for $6 (last I heard) and/or resling Camalots for $5. Added bonus: The triggers are replaced by the same guy who puts them together new. He will re-lube them and inspect them for safe use.

Call BD at 801.278.5552 ask for warranty service. They'll let you know where to send them.


davidji


Aug 23, 2004, 2:47 PM
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In reply to:
http://www.pagangear.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=226. I have a set of DMM walnuts
I think it's good to have more than one set of nuts (plus micros when you need 'em), but it's good if the nuts are different kinds. I wouldn't want two sets of curves. I have curves and most of a set of straight-sided. Offsets sound appealing. Trinuts are intriguing too. I think Maculated is preparing a gear review of them.


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