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scott_davidson
Aug 14, 2004, 4:17 AM
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I am glad somebody mentioned Half Dome, I just wanted to point out that beside being 95% free at 5.9, its super fun climbing and position and is one of the best routes I have climbed ever.
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justsendingits
Aug 15, 2004, 11:26 PM
Post #27 of 47
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Liberty Cap would be my choice for the easiest big wall in the valley, although I have not done mideast crissis, which I hear is steller.
We re bolted L.C. All anchors and lead bolts and rivits were replaced, 37 bolts and rivits in all I think.
I have done WFLT(3 times) SFWC, and the reg. on HD. and the prow.
All are great climbs but VERY crowded!!
The trail to Liberty Cap is easy,steps all the way,and it is right next to Nevada falls! Great local!!
Pitch 9 has a ledge that has to be seen to believe!
You don't have to haul water up to the base, you can get it from Nevada falls,and it was ok for me to drink without treating it.
The hike down after the top out takes only 20 min. to get to Nevada falls.
The pitches are short so really it is more like a grade 5 and a half.
One long day or 2 days!
I did the whole thing clean, with one spot being c2+ ??? which was in the middle of the bolt ladder, well protected below with a bolt.
You can still see the bat hook holes every 30 inches that Harding drilled on the bolt ladder pitch, they are all blown out. Liberty Cap is the climb that Harding introduced bat hooks on, with Rowell and ???? in 1969.
The last pitch is full on 5.9 R, no holds slab climbing, about two 15 ft. sections, the rest is 5.7- 5.8.
I had to brush the dirt off the slab before I put a foot on it and stood up.
Get on that sh(t now cause it will be in the new Super Tacos book soon and everyone and their mother will be on it!
Drive fast take chances!!
yours truely--Some sum b!tch
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asandh
Aug 16, 2004, 1:06 AM
Post #28 of 47
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:)
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fuzzybrandon
Aug 17, 2004, 2:06 AM
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No one has suggested the Prow? Well, if you're after something more aid intensive that SF or HD, it's pretty good. Nice and steep, consistent at about C2, some ledges (but they aren't great), and the best view of HD around. If you're after just big, and not necessarily learning aid, HD can't be beat. The ledges aren't great but they are adequate.
Who said the Shield is easier than Zodiac? I beg to differ. Except for the pitch off Chickenhead and the next one it's pretty safe to fall though. Maybe the 'clean Zodiac' is harder that the 'full on pin pounding Shield'.
Coylec admitting he's a noob, did somewhere just freeze over? A change of tone indeed.
You still got that cam I bootied at RB?
Hope your having fun up in OR. Congrats on the Zodiac.
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coylec
Aug 17, 2004, 4:19 AM
Post #30 of 47
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In reply to: Coylec admitting he's a noob, did somewhere just freeze over? A change of tone indeed. You still got that cam I bootied at RB? Hope your having fun up in OR. Congrats on the Zodiac.
Thanks! Love that cam, use it all the time :D
Change in tone? Yeah, as I've gotten more experience, I've gotten more comfortable with what I do and don't know. And, I wish it would freeze over ... its bloody hot in Oregon ... I thought I was escaping the heat of the South.
coylec
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ricardol
Aug 17, 2004, 8:31 PM
Post #31 of 47
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I think that the Supertopo guide book has a good description of easy clean walls in yosemite ..
South Face of Washington's Column
West Face of Leaning Tower
The Prow
.. those are your standard easy big wall routes ..
.. and most people do these walls before tackling an el cap route ..
-- ricardo
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asandh
Aug 17, 2004, 9:04 PM
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:)
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ricardol
Aug 18, 2004, 4:21 AM
Post #33 of 47
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In reply to: pmyche wrote: In reply to: Stay off Zodiac unless you do it clean? Why, to keep the rock pristine? Go to some lesser travelled route and beat the hell out of it instead? If it weren't for its hundreds of pin scars, the Zodiac would still be a full nail-up. I'm all for preserving the rock, but asking fledgling wall rats to go clean on a project like that is bad advice. I'd much rather see someone tap in a few pins (where hundreds of climbers have tapped in the exact same pins) than create a needlessly dangerous situation (or worse) because of some blind idealism tossed around the 'net. I'm not trying to be a clean aid snob. I'm just suggesting that they NOT do the Zodiac first. Do these: South Face WC - clean West Face Leaning Tower - clean Prow - clean plus a little C3 hooking practice Voila !! You are now ready to do Zodiac in good clean style and feel better about the ascent because you did it that way.
.. Asandh .. i think in part you are correct ... with some practice Zodiac would receive alot less pounding ..
.. the whole idea of a climb like zodiac being done in "good clean style" is kind of funny .. there is so much fixed gear on the route .. i'd imagine that if all the fixed gear was not there, and you climbed it hammerless .. that it would then be something worth talking about -- ..
-- ricardo
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justsendingits
Aug 18, 2004, 4:28 AM
Post #34 of 47
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The prow is also VERY crowded, go do mideast crissis or Liberty cap.
and as far as Zodiac goes,there is no reason you should wait until you get good enough to do the whole thing clean.
Nothing wrong with banging a few pins in the hard sections,as long as it's just a few.
At least bring the hammer,you just might wish you had.
I did New dawn and the wall of early morning light this year and the beta I found online said leave the hammer. What a bunch of B.S. that was. The guy's that had done it clean used all the fixed stoppers on pitch 24 and 25.
Guess what? When i got there they were all gone!! good thing I had the hammer and did not fall for the bad betta!
Routes change from time to time,and what are you gonna do if you have to replace a fixed head?
When I did Zodiac I banged in 2 pins and I am proud of it!
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holdplease2
Aug 18, 2004, 4:36 AM
Post #35 of 47
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Climbing clean is not about "having something to talk about" like its a great accomplishment.
Climbing clean is about one climber doing as little additional net damage to the rock yourself as possible.
Learn to use gear well and evaluate risk on 'easier' climbs, while climbing them without additional hammering on the rock. Then get on Zodiac, and instead of getting scared or lacking gerar placement skill and hammering further on the rock, do it 'clean' or at least cleaner than you would have without bringing your skills up to par first.
There is nothing funny or ridiculous or laughable about taking the time to learn so that you do as little net additional damage to the rock as possible.
There is only one el cap. Is it your right to further f*ck it up just to expand your ticklist? ('your' not referring to anyone in particular)
Sometimes it isn't just about building a ticklist by nailing the shit out of something big and difficult. It isn't about bragging about a "clean" ascent on fixed gear. Its about learning what the hell you are doing and thereby not doing more damage to the rock because you didn't take the time to practice and learn to climb with gentle skill.
Even on a well known nailing route...did you nail 20 times or 80? Which climber would you rather be? Learn to be the climber you would rather be before you nail the shit out of rock that doesn't need it.
Just my 2 cents, I know its about 'judgement' and no, I don't think anyone should die or risk super-serious injury just to avoid nailing...but the better you are, the more accurately you will assess the real risk you face and the better you will be at managing it without further wear on our precious resource.
-Kate.
And to justseningits - I agree - carry the pins, carry the hammer, carry the heads and know how to use them. Better that than get a rescue. Routes, especially those dependant on fixed gear, change much over time. Unless you are super-skill-climber, it would seem almost irresponsible to climb without the tools required for nailing 'just in case'
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climbingcowboy
Aug 18, 2004, 12:43 PM
Post #36 of 47
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Nicely put Kate
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epic_ed
Aug 18, 2004, 4:00 PM
Post #37 of 47
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In reply to: Liberty Cap would be my choice for the easiest big wall in the valley, although I have not done mideast crissis, which I hear is steller. We retro bolted L.C. All anchors and lead bolts and rivits were replaced, 37 bolts and rivits in all I think... *snip* yours truely--Some sum b!tch
SSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! Damn it, Rich!! Keep this one quite! :P
Nice job with all the work you guys did on it this year. Hope to get on dat beeotch sometime -- maybe next year. :mrgreen:
Ed
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ricardol
Aug 18, 2004, 7:20 PM
Post #38 of 47
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well put kate .. (i was trying to say something similar .. but i'm not as eloquent) ..
.. on my next climb i'd like to climb as clean as possible .. but after some dicussion with some friends, and a thread on this board, i've decided to pack the pins in the bag ..
i wonder what the black tower pitch on zodiac would be like if there was no fixed gear on it .. (no heads, or rurps, or fixed beaks) ..
-- ricardo
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dsafanda
Aug 18, 2004, 7:30 PM
Post #39 of 47
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In reply to: SSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! Damn it, Rich!! Keep this one quite! Nice job with all the work you guys did on it this year. Hope to get on dat beeotch sometime -- maybe next year.
Don't know how big of a secret Liberty Cap really is. There are a few popular trip reports already on the web. For what it's worth the upcoming second edition of the ST BigWalls book will include a topo for Liberty Cap.
As I write this I'm looking at a topo for Gold Wall and that also looks like a very good moderate Yosemite Wall. Similar in many ways to the South Face of Washington Column.
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iamthewallress
Aug 18, 2004, 7:58 PM
Post #40 of 47
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In reply to: As I write this I'm looking at a ST topo for Gold Wall and that also looks like a very good moderate Yosemite Wall.
I doubt that it is. I followed J on it (The free variation differs at 2-4 pitches as I recall, Silent Line, 10c A0 MA...crux was more like solid 5.11R). The aid may be straight forward, but it seemed to me that there was a lot of mandatory free climbing (chimney on every pitch up high...don't recall it's aidability). The hauling would probably be murder through the lowish angled chimneys (there's a reason why people don't haul routes that are mostly <=5.9 for practice...), and the descent with a haulbag is probably not the best place for someone who doesn't have much experience since you have to pretty much find your own route down (the "rap route" consisted of old slings with taped-shut biners burried in manzanita) and down climbing with heavy loads. It took many hours and was pretty spicey with just a rack and rope.
The route itself did not seem particularly hospitable for rapping and did not have fixed anchors at many points at the time that we were up there. I think that it makes climbing in the Valley richer if a few wall-style routes remain where you have to build your own achors and commit to topping out or loosing your rack. I hope that the Supertopo does not recommend rapping the route to descend.
Anyhoo...I'm interested to see what they wrote about it. I was up there during the time that Nanook was doing the replacement and probably the topoing. We were sharing our war stories with him the next day (I wore a hole through my shoe leather and destroyed my pants.) I got the feeling that although he was hoping for a gem for the beginners, that he didn't think Gold Wall necessarily fit the bill. Maybe I read him wrong through the filter of my experience though?
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dsafanda
Aug 18, 2004, 8:15 PM
Post #41 of 47
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In reply to: The aid may be straight forward, but it seemed to me that there was a lot of mandatory free climbing (chimney on every pitch up high...don't recall it's aidability).
I haven't climbed it. I'm just looking at a topo. There is a fair amount of free climbing but nothing harder than 5.9. Granted 5.9OW is enough to keep the crowds away but I think it's probably still fair to call it moderate.
In reply to: I got the feeling that although he was hoping for a gem for the beginners, that he didn't think Gold Wall necessarily fit the bill.
Erik Sloan pretty much told me the exact same thing but I guess it depends on what you mean by "beginners". It looks like the route would be very suitable for strong free climbers who are new to aid. It would NOT be suitable for someone new to both.
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brutusofwyde
Aug 20, 2004, 9:25 PM
Post #42 of 47
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Registered: Nov 3, 2002
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Easy, uncrowded California walls --
Valley:
South Central, Washington Column (uncrowded after Dinner Ledge)
Washington Column, Southern Man (ditto)
Gold Wall, Ribbon Falls area
Silent Line (variation of Gold Wall)
Chouinard-Herbert, Sentinel Rock
Steck-Salathe', Sentinel Rock
Sierra:
Direct South Face, Lone Pine Peak
Harding Route, Mt. Conness
Dark Star, Temple Crag
Planaria, Temple Crag
Harding Route, Keeler Needle
Hairline, Mt. Whitney
Cinco de Mayo, Castle Rock Spire
Banzaii, Calaveras Dome
Don't limit yourself to the Big Ditch.
Brutus
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twoliter
Aug 20, 2004, 10:23 PM
Post #43 of 47
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Any one who would say any of the el cap route are easy for a beginer wall climber is a sand bagger, especially the Zodiac. My first big wall was the West Face of Leaning Tower, Steep, moderate length, and ledges to sleep on, great route. As for the el cap routes, do you like peaple driving 35 in the fast lane? If you can't do the route in a reasonable length of time don't get on it, your holding other competent climbers up and putting yourself in an extended risk situation. Get it dialed in first and then try the captain.
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iamthewallress
Aug 23, 2004, 7:27 PM
Post #44 of 47
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In reply to: Fledgling - make that all - wall rats should be allowed to have their adventure without oppression from the style police.
I totally agree...And at the same time, if someone is looking for a recommendation for their first wall, I'm going to give the evil eye to anyone who tells them that Zodiac is a good place to start.
If one comes to that conclusion on their own, then fair enough. If it happens because someone whose opinion they trusted told them it was easy, that's a whole nother thing.
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ricardol
Aug 23, 2004, 8:29 PM
Post #45 of 47
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if rumors are correct .. the zodiac is probably now a harder climb that it was a few weeks ago .. (rumors are that it got cleaned of alot of fixed gear) ..
slow parties don't neccesarily slow down other climbers .. even on a popular route like zodiac .. i was lucky enough to have been on the tail end of a 3 party train up the zodiac, which kept other parties from even coming onto the wall until i was up to the 12th belay
.. plus, the rock is really first come first serve .. if you want to spend 3 weeks climbing zodiac, more power to you .. just be ready to let other people pass .. (common courtesy) ..
... i'm hoping to be fast enough on my next wall to be able to take a day off towards the top, and just hang out on my ledge for a day.. maybe fix 1 pitch, and read a book. -- should that not be frowned upon because it slows down my ascent? --
.. paying too much attention to style takes away from what i think is the bigger purpose of climbing .. (having a frigging good time!)
-- ricardo
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iamthewallress
Aug 24, 2004, 5:26 PM
Post #46 of 47
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In reply to: .. paying too much attention to style takes away from what i think is the bigger purpose of climbing .. (having a frigging good time!)
I think you've got to pay attention to both. One of the biggest problems that we face with respect to preserving access is that there are so many people whose sense of entitlement to a good time comes before a respect for the rock, the environment, and others users of the resource.
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ricardol
Aug 24, 2004, 10:02 PM
Post #47 of 47
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In reply to: In reply to: .. paying too much attention to style takes away from what i think is the bigger purpose of climbing .. (having a frigging good time!) I think you've got to pay attention to both. One of the biggest problems that we face with respect to preserving access is that there are so many people whose sense of entitlement to a good time comes before a respect for the rock, the environment, and others users of the resource.
.. true -- you have to strike a balance
-- ricardo
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