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nswelton


Aug 19, 2004, 4:47 PM
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bolting questions
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Hi folks – quick question on bolt types to put in on a sport climb on sandstone. Part of the rock is totally bomber, the other part is kind of mushy, sandy and of poor quality. I’ve got a big pile of fixe double wedge bolts, 3/8” by 3.75” but I’m not sure if they’re good enough, especially for the poorer sections of rock.
Umm. Any advice on how good the fixe double wedges are? The climb is gently overhung most of the way, but it goes in “waves,” so I could probably get a bolt placed horizontal to the ground (or even sunk downward) almost everywhere. About half way up there’s a 4-foot roof, and as soon as the roof turns vertical the rock is super solid. So I’m not worried about the part from there up. My questions regard how to bolt the sandy parts (do I need a half inch by four inch rawl or can I use the fixes?) and also how to bolt the roof.
Cheers.


ullr


Aug 19, 2004, 5:11 PM
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two words: glue in

Rawl bolts can be difficult to place in chossy sandstone because when you tap them in, the expansion cone can bore the hole too large. Causing a spinner when you tighten them.

The Fixe double wedge could work well, but 1/2" is better in soft rock. Because if the edge of the rock breaks, then the bolt can bend and lever out.

Go to http://www.safeclimbing.org/education.htm for more info.


crotch


Aug 19, 2004, 5:18 PM
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In reply to:
I’ve got a big pile of fixe double wedge bolts, 3/8” by 3.75” but I’m not sure if they’re good enough, especially for the poorer sections of rock.

Those Fixe wedge bolts aren't the best choice for soft rock, and I'd consider just about any sandstone to be soft rock. Glue-ins are your best option.


ullr


Aug 19, 2004, 5:20 PM
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The fixe bolts you have are too short also. 5" length is best in sandstone.

Is this a developed crag, or just a small deal that you are working on. If it is developed, what are the other established routes bolted with?


kaczoron


Aug 19, 2004, 7:54 PM
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Hey,

Like Crotch said have you concidered glue ins?

In Australia we dont use mechanical bolts for sandstone, they endup falling out, se we glue everything!

I posted this a while ago but ill do it again:

http://www.chockstone.org/...SandstoneBolting.htm

If nothing else its intresting reading.

And get in tough with orangeoverhang, he's done enough sandstone routes to know whats what.

Cheers,
Nick


shawkshaw


Aug 19, 2004, 8:03 PM
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in soft rock your best options are glue ins. mechanical bolts may seem ok when initially installed but the hole will gradually get bigger and the bolt looser with time. much safer to put in a ring or U with glue.


climbbaja


Aug 19, 2004, 8:32 PM
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Wedge anchors are designed for hard rock only. Never install them in soft rock, such as sandstone.


snafflehound


Aug 25, 2004, 5:07 PM
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I've been using these 5/8 x 6 Rawl 5 pieces in sandstone lately. There's nothing mushy about this stone though, so all those voices advising glue-in bolts are probably spot on for what you're looking at. I've only done one route with glue-ins, and it was quite a mess. I've still got epoxy on my harness a year and a half later. Of course, I only make it through about half my mornings without coffee on my shirt, so you may do better.
http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/...517/1970bolt-med.JPG


billcoe_


Aug 25, 2004, 9:42 PM
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In reply to:
Hey,

Like Crotch said have you concidered glue ins?

In Australia we dont use mechanical bolts for sandstone, they endup falling out, se we glue everything!

I posted this a while ago but ill do it again:

http://www.chockstone.org/...SandstoneBolting.htm

If nothing else its intresting reading.

And get in tough with orangeoverhang, he's done enough sandstone routes to know whats what.

Cheers,
Nick

Thanks for sharing Nick: I vote you get an "A" or sharing and Stephen graduates with honors.

Any chance he'll be working on a Basalt thesis anytime soon?

Regards:

Bill


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